The Dixie Chicks should be President

[bj229r]

Originally posted by MORAY37
You know why we aren't yelling about Afgahanistan, about getting out?  Maybe cuz, the people who actually attacked us fled to there. Not the imaginary terrorists bush wanted us to see in iraq.

They CAME from there..they FLED to Pakistan, which isn't being addressed by anyone

[Tango]

Originally posted by MORAY37
You know why we aren't yelling about Afgahanistan, about getting out?  Maybe cuz, the people who actually attacked us fled to there. Not the imaginary terrorists bush wanted us to see in iraq.

As BJ said, they fled. So why aren't you wanting us out of Afganistan as well? If you don't want to fight the terrorists that are in Iraq, why do you want to fight the ones there?

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by john9001
don't worry pig, when they come knocking on your door you will know who they are.

ally ackbaa.

It's not the ones at my door i'm talking about it's the ones, in Iraq they're supposed to be fighting that the soldiers have know idea who they are? If you got into a fist fight with a guy, wouldn't you have to at least see the guy and know who it is to at least have an idea of who and how to attack him? The soldiers in Iraq have no idea untill they're attacked, by then it's too late and it's all over. If you can't understand that simple principle i don't get it? I don't feel any safer with them in Iraq, all the terrorist have to do is hop the next plane to America, set up an attack somewhere in America, and kill us all, while the whole army is playing "Where's Waldo" in Iraq. A terrorist is anybody who has hate in their heart and you can't tell who that is untill they do something. Sure you can seek out terrorist cells, and that is a good idea, but a terrorist could be a little 12 year old boy with a bomb strapped to his chest. How the Army fights that kind of anonymity, i don't know?

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Tango
As BJ said, they fled. So why aren't you wanting us out of Afganistan as well? If you don't want to fight the terrorists that are in Iraq, why do you want to fight the ones there?

It appears that in Iraq the soldiers are getting anonymously attacked while being defenseless to help themselves. While it seems that the Army in Afganistan is wageing a much more centralized and focused attack on the terrorist cells and activities to break up they're supplies and future plans. I agree that we should have kept this focus on the terrorists instead of focusing our attention on Iraq. I think Sadaam most likely would have kept quiet, because while he was evil he wasn't stupid. He knew what would happen to him if he tried to get to involved. If he did try to get involved we could have attacked him then, instead of focusing our attention from the war on terror to Iraq. To have any hope of fighting terrorist, you have to fight and break up there underground network of logistics and intelligence to break up there plans. Now we have created a destabilized region in which Iran might try to get involved further complicating the situation. All we really did was to plow up the soil in the middle east so the terrorists could plant the crop that is hatred.

Btw, i'm glad to see you guys are having an intelligent discussion about Iraq and not insulting each other too much. Not like how the thread first started.

[Tango]

My opinion, Saddam did screw up. He had his troops shooting at our air patrols. The first time that happened should have been the end of the cease fire and we should have taken him out then.

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Tango
My opinion, Saddam did screw up. He had his troops shooting at our air patrols. The first time that happened should have been the end of the cease fire and we should have taken him out then.

Gotta be cautious when starting war, sometimes heads are worth more alive that dead, for situations of posture and manipulation

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by john9001
"If the Iranians got their hands on those ak47's,"

you don't think the Iranians have their own AK's? I think you are really stretching here. Prove the weapons the insurgents use are from the USA.

Yeah, they must have been taken by Norwegian grandmothers

[lazs2]

moray said...

"Laz...

You think fixing the roads, upgrading the electric grid so that a squirrel can't short out the entire east coast, and rebuilding cities hit by disaster.....SOCIALIST?

You're a nut job.

__________________
CPID MORAY in AH (present)"


again... you do what you accuse me of doing... you read nothing I said and replied to your own soundbite.    I think it is because you are incapable of thinking past one or two sources of news fed you.

I said that we already have the money to fix our infrastructure like roads and levees in road taxes that are wasted on social programs instead of what they are needed for.   Most bridges have been paid for a dozen times...  half of our road taxes go to social programs instead of actually fixing the roads.   Now you want to give then even more money to fix what they should have been fixing all along while continuing to fund the social programs and big government with the both the general fund and the infrastructure money.

All that will do is give them more money to spend on fledgling social programs that will grow into 9 headed monsters in a decade or so...  sooooo... nooo... I don't want the government to have more of my money to redistribute.... I want them to get smaller.    

Like I said... the way their socialist programs grow... I would rather they took my tax money and set it on fire.  We would be better off (cheaper) in the long run.    It is like what the democrats do... when they get in power they simply shut down the military and spend the money on social programs... then... the republicans come in and they don't start any more but the build back up the failing military...  that is the real hamster wheel we are on.



lazs

[Speed55]

Originally posted by LEADPIG
It's not the ones at my door i'm talking about it's the ones, in Iraq they're supposed to be fighting that the soldiers have know idea who they are? If you got into a fist fight with a guy, wouldn't you have to at least see the guy and know who it is to at least have an idea of who and how to attack him? The soldiers in Iraq have no idea untill they're attacked, by then it's too late and it's all over. If you can't understand that simple principle i don't get it? I don't feel any safer with them in Iraq, all the terrorist have to do is hop the next plane to America, set up an attack somewhere in America, and kill us all, while the whole army is playing "Where's Waldo" in Iraq. A terrorist is anybody who has hate in their heart and you can't tell who that is untill they do something. Sure you can seek out terrorist cells, and that is a good idea, but a terrorist could be a little 12 year old boy with a bomb strapped to his chest. How the Army fights that kind of anonymity, i don't know?

You keep saying that we don't know who they are, but how do you know that?  
How do you know that we don't have good people in iraq, helping our soldiers to find and kill the terrorists, who are enemies to us/our troops, and them?

I'm sure there are times when we or the iraqi's don't know who they are, but to say that the only time we EVER know who they are is when they kill one of us, or our allies there,  i think is a bit of an exageration.

[lazs2]

the soldiers I talk to tell me that the people would love to turn in the insurgents but..  it is suicide at this point...

You need boots on the ground to provide the security that will allow the people to help themselves.   the cops have to wear hoods fer chrisakes when they go with ours as interpreters..   You need to build up the security of a region and then the people feel safe in turning in the bad guys.

You don't do that by surrendering.

lazs

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Speed55
You keep saying that we don't know who they are, but how do you know that?  
How do you know that we don't have good people in iraq, helping our soldiers to find and kill the terrorists, who are enemies to us/our troops, and them?

I'm sure there are times when we or the iraqi's don't know who they are, but to say that the only time we EVER know who they are is when they kill one of us, or our allies there,  i think is a bit of an exageration.

To know who the terrorists are on a large enough scale to be very effective, and fight the conventional style our army is generally trained for, i don't think they do know who they are. Sure they might find out the names of 2,3 or 5 terrorist and go find them, that's a very smal drop in the bucket to have a huge effect. They don't however have the names and identities of 100, or 500 or 1,000 terrorists they can attack and turn an artillery barrage or something on and do the kind of attack our conventional army was made for. Our army is not made for the type of guerilla fighting these people are doing and thus very wasteful and inefficient in lives for the ammount of succes achieved.  If we didn't learn this fact in Vietnam i don't where you could learn it from. Our current administration seems to have a brain blockage to this fact. It's like fighting plain put up your fists, style boxing against someone who knows Ju Jit Su. Not a good idea. Very simple concept, fight fire with fire, not gasoline.

[TOMCAT21]

we are actually issuing the iraqi army and police M-16A4's and M4 carbines......iran has been supllying the insurgents with the weapons , while the syrians provide the foreign fighters a haven to go into Iraq from...most of the terps we had had were working for the insurgents. the IA and IP are constantly shooting one another....while the sunni and the *****es duke it out the Kurds are waiting for us to pull out..Iraq is a mess..it sucked being there , but i made that choice and prolly will go there again.. ...we are there and going to be there for awhile..no sense dwelling on why and how we wound up there..cant change it...//while we  may not like each others opinions..we are all entitled to our opinions  constitution, the constitution I took an oath to protect....thats my take...peace....

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah, they must have been taken by Norwegian grandmothers

Iranians are buying them LOTS better stuff than AK's:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran13.xml

Austrian sniper rifles that were exported to Iran have been discovered in the hands of Iraqi terrorists, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

More than 100 of the.50 calibre weapons, capable of penetrating body armour, have been discovered by American troops during raids.
    
A Steyr HS50 rifle, Austrian supplied rifles, arms trade, Iran equipping Iraq insurgents
The Steyr HS50 is a long range, high precision rifle

The guns were part of a shipment of 800 rifles that the Austrian company, Steyr-Mannlicher, exported legally to Iran last year.

The sale was condemned in Washington and London because officials were worried that the weapons would be used by insurgents against British and American troops..

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by bj229r

Droooooooooool !

[lazs2]

so leadpig... who would you have go after and locate and target these terroists?   The FBI?  they can hardly even find a bigamist after 10 years... the CIA?  please...

They can't even get the address correct here in the states... what makes you think they could bust down doors in pakistan and shoot the right guy?

lazs