Author Topic: Night of the Broken Glass (Read 2677 times)

Eagler · « **Reply #75 on:** September 04, 2007, 02:05:03 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
A group of cuban paratroopers is not gonna do it.

lazs

true

but if the gun owners really think they would contribute any kind of real resistance against a motivated invader, they are kidding themselves.

Yes, you could hold off a rioting group of locals from entering your home for a while but the invader would take out your town from >30,000ft. You'd never know what hit you as you sat there oiling up your arms collection

john9001 · « **Reply #76 on:** September 04, 2007, 02:29:23 PM »

who says we would fight "civilized"? Plenty of former military that were trained in sabotage.

Angus · « **Reply #77 on:** September 04, 2007, 02:44:27 PM »

Charon, - did you ever read Remarque?
That "non-jew" actually left nazi Germany for the USA, BTW.
Anyway, he wrote excellently of the nazi rise, and eventually had to go packing because of it. In his writings, there is not much of the authorities (well they were weak) trying to stop the progress of nazism.
Another book of the subject is called "die welle". Gonna catch that one in Germany next week.
We may disagree a lot, but since I see you are a thinker, I thought it would be a civil gesture to promote something that you might not have looked into.

And Xargos, - ok 1989. Hugo crossed the N-Atlantic and over where I live. Luckily much of the force was out, so it was just an unusual storm at that time of year.
I will never forget, for I lived in a tent 4 months of that year.
Same with 1990, just wasn't sure which year it was.
(My wilder youth...ahhhh)

Charon · « **Reply #78 on:** September 04, 2007, 04:01:25 PM »

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Anyway, he wrote excellently of the nazi rise, and eventually had to go packing because of it. In his writings, there is not much of the authorities (well they were weak) trying to stop the progress of nazism.
Another book of the subject is called "die welle". Gonna catch that one in Germany next week.

Thanks. I'll look into those. [Edit: I assume that would be Erich Maria Remarque of "All Quiet on the Western Front" fame.] No need for civil gestures -- I don't take these discussion personally and I hope you don't either

This is an area of interest of mine after I moved beyond just the war stories years ago. Another good read on the subject is: The Nazi Seizure of Power: The Experience of a Single German Town, 1930-1935. by William Sheridan Allen. It's focus is a bit narrow but it is noteworthy in that the town in question (named "Thalburg" to provide some anonymity to the people interviewed) showed how the Nazi's managed to win the hearts and minds of a fairly "non Nazi" environment. The discussion on the Nazi use of propaganda at all levels, tailored to each audience is insightful.

I would argue that there are some significant differences between the US and Germany post WW1 (at least for now). The Germans were coming from an authoritarian society where individual rights were superseded by order and security, having moved from the Kaiser to the messiness of the Wiemar Republic in only a few short years. The appeal of a strong dictator was fairly straight forward. The US has had a strong nationalist but at the same time individualist streak. However, we seem to be moving away from that spirit of individuality in both mainstream conservative and liberal platforms. Here it tends to be an Urban rural thing, with a mix of both in the suburbs.

I would have no intention of taking part in some dead end revolution if my countrymen decided to freely give up their rights, as they well can. We can vote into power a Hitler, much as the Germans did, and amend the Constitution to make it a quite different document. In that scenario I would just leave to a free country if I could. However, should a tyrant decide to take that power, feeling perhaps that he or she had just enough support among the population and military to do so -- then we do have a recourse.

Charon

storch · « **Reply #79 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:21:23 PM »

some of us have gone through that precise scenario charon. I come from cuba and when the populace voted in a dictator my family along with the many other like minded families did precisely that. I was three years old at the time and i know what it means to come from abundance at home to poverty in a foreign land. this is very different in the case of a population of five million and when only one hundred thousand of the most educated and best prepared within that society decided to vacate to the welcoming arms of the american people. if one percent of the population of the united states decided to seek political asylum where would we go? where is this last bastion of freedom to be found?

I agree that taking up armed resistance against your own government is folly and yet even with the sobering consequences of such an action to ponder perhaps those that may one day be forced to make that choice will recall the everyday heros of a bygone era and find strength in the words and actions of men such as those that pledged life and fortune when they penned their names onto a document to be submitted to their sovereign.

many of those brave founders lost both life and fortune in order that their progeny might enjoy what we have today.

I already know what I would chose in such a matter and fleeing twice in my lifetime just doesn't sit well with me.

culero · « **Reply #80 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:21:46 PM »

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Originally posted by Slash27
Why Texans?

'cause we're bad and we're nationwide

storch · « **Reply #81 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:23:15 PM »

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Originally posted by culero
'cause we're bad and we're nationwide

with your new york brim and your gold tooth displayed?

culero · « **Reply #82 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:30:53 PM »

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Originally posted by storch
with your new york brim and your gold tooth displayed?

Yeap, and my first hot rod was a V8 Ford

Charon · « **Reply #83 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:44:40 PM »

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I already know what I would chose in such a matter and fleeing twice in my lifetime just doesn't sit well with me.

I don't know if there would necessarily be anything to flee vs. just leave. Not that we are close to the point just yet, but there are a lot of people both self proclaimed conservatives and liberals who would freely support a government structure close to either fascism or communism. If, say, 90 percent of the country thinks your quaint small government, BOR focused views are just too "outdated" in the modern world, what would be the point? Again, I don't think we are close to having that be acceptable today.

There was plenty of support for remaining a colony before/during the revolution, but there was more than plenty of support (though a lot of it passive) for independence. We were able to raise a significant resistance that included fielded forces and not just partisans. And partisans especially would need at least the passive support of the people. Without some support base a revolution is pointless.

Charon

Angus · « **Reply #84 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:26:33 AM »

Erich Maria Remarque yes.
You have 2 books of the same character as in "All quiet on the Western front", - Ludwig Bodmeier.
The first one I haven't caught yet, but it happens right after WW1. The title is something like "We went home". Then comes "Falling currency" where he enters the rise of Nazism.
Another book in a similar tone, but more of the bohemian style is called "The Friends" (other characters) then the Darker "Arc of Triump" and "Night in Lissabon" Excellent read.
"The wave", - can't remember the author, but it's about how a small movement like the Nazis were in the beginning starts to form a wave of people, - or so I understood it. Wife read it, I not yet.
Then on the more political side, once the Nazis were in power, I have a little German book called "Der Teufelspact"m - the devil's deal, - about the German-USSR pre-war deals. OOOps

Anyway, Remarque gave me hours of really good reading.

lazs2 · « **Reply #85 on:** September 05, 2007, 09:08:42 AM »

eagler... can you name a situation where me not being armed would be better than me being armed?

Your scenario is pure fantasy. We are not gonna get invaded by anyone. That is the problem the movie had.. they had to contrive paratroop landings. What else could they do? We won't have beach landings here like in WWII.

What navy on the planet can get enough troops here that I can't shoot along with some help from police, military, and bubba?

In WWII we were scared to death of a jap defense of the homeland by armed citizens... and they really had nothing but sharpened broomsticks by then.

The most probable scenario I see is civil war... probly not a particularly bloody one outside of the big cities tho.

In any case... rural and armed will beat taxi riding unarmed blue voting sissy every time.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #86 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:43:21 AM »

You have anti-tank stuff?
Rural = playground for armour. Urban = not so.

lazs2 · « **Reply #87 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:33:00 PM »

angus... if I need anti tank stuff I would get it. I sure as hell would have a lot harder time getting it tho without a firearm.

Anything I need will be laying around sooner or latter... so long as we stay armed and willing to fight.

The RPG.. is a very old and primitive weapon as is TNT... those things seem to be doing just fine in destroying some of the most sophisticated weaponry we have in iraq.

Tanks? Hell... if I had to I would just set the damn thing on fire or break the bridge under it or drop a big rock or bulldozer on it. sure as hell... I can go places it can't. The insurgents would have all just turned themselves in by your logic by now.

It just keeps coming back to the same thing... a government can't fight it's own armed and determined populace and there is no one out there who could invade the US... it is just not possible.

Soooo... it behooves us to keep up with the constitution that made us the most powerful country in the history of the world.

You are only as powerless as you allow yourself to be... many here revel in their powerlessness.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #88 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:45:23 PM »

Lazs vs an army.
"angus... if I need anti tank stuff I would get it."

Would you be able to go shopping with a tank at yer door?
(looking at you through IR anyway)

bustr · « **Reply #89 on:** September 05, 2007, 09:15:40 PM »

Lazs vs an army.
"angus... if I need anti tank stuff I would get it."

Would you be able to go shopping with a tank at yer door?
(looking at you through IR anyway) [/QUOTE]

Angus,

By this point you are simply baiting Laz.

Neither one of us (3) have any idea what will or would happen if an American president made an executive decree for the in-country military to disarm the American population. We are a country of 300+M you are from an island of aprox. 300k.

I have to think even the citizens of Iceland would put up a fight if your next leader issued an order for the police and military to place the country under military law indefinately. In the same spirit I have to ask you:

"Do you hate the United States so much that in jest you would wish us defeat and slavery in a fantasy circemsatnce that you yourself in your own country would resist to the death? Or would you personaly help your government inslave your country men to keep your own freedom?"