Author Topic: Night of the Broken Glass  (Read 2679 times)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2007, 10:57:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
Thought they were Jewish Poles?


2 revolts. One in the Getto, the other a total one. 1943 and 1944.

There was something similar in Bialistok as well if I recall.

In Warsaw the Nazis, at some cost, squashed the uprisings, eventually leaving the city in total ruins.
Now a US citizen is better armed than a starved jew normally. The jew had nothing to loose though, and at the time, knew it. And the Gerries didn't have IR, flashbangs and some nice SWAT gadgets.
All up for ponder....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Xargos

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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2007, 11:02:41 AM »
My water comes from a private well, as do many of the homes around here.  Many people also keep a large supply of food because of hurricanes.   The American government can only go so far before it's own troops start to turn on them.  The idea is to keep them at bay until the common American soldier starts to question his orders.  The only real threat to America is the UN, they are worse then any Muslim terrorist.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2007, 11:06:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
My water comes from a private well, as do many of the homes around here.  Many people also keep a large supply of food because of hurricanes.   The American government can only go so far before it's own troops start to turn on them.  The idea is to keep them at bay until the common American soldier starts to question his orders.  The only real threat to America is the UN, they are worse then any Muslim terrorist.


Get your point, but the Majority of citizens do NOT have a private water or power source, nor long term supplies of unfrozen food. And there is a history of riots and looting after power outs. Just power outs that last a couple of days.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Charon

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« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2007, 11:42:33 AM »
Quote
In Warsaw the Nazis, at some cost, squashed the uprisings, eventually leaving the city in total ruins.
Now a US citizen is better armed than a starved jew normally. The jew had nothing to loose though, and at the time, knew it. And the Gerries didn't have IR, flashbangs and some nice SWAT gadgets.
All up for ponder....


Of course, the Nazi's were killing Jews in a foreign city. Here' the military would be tasked with killing friends, family and fellow citizens either directly or as collateral damage while destroying home towns, etc. Any assault on a massed resistance where there was any question about the validity of the resistance would be a non starter.

A protest by 5,000 citizens, mothers, fathers brothers, sisters, friends, cousins, etc. many armed would not be a Waco. You cannot use non lethal methods with such numbers, particularly if the protesters return tear gas with rifle fire. Lethal methods would result in heavy casualties and spur a dramatic end to such nonsense. Jut look at Kent State.

There is only so far you can oppress a minority, and you can't effectively suppress a majority, particularly if it is armed. Guys like Hitler and Stalin didn't have that worry. They had the passive to active support of most of the population. And when Hitler met significant opposition to policies like the euthanasia campaign or even the resettlement of married Jews in Berlin ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenstrasse_protest ) he backed down.

Charon

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2007, 11:52:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
Thought they were Jewish Poles?


There were two uprising's in Warsaw.  The first was by Jewish Poles (The Ghetto Uprising).  The second was by the general population.

- Edit, Angus beat me to it.
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Offline Xargos

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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2007, 11:52:05 AM »
I did not know about that Charon...Thank You.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2007, 12:29:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
My water comes from a private well, as do many of the homes around here.  Many people also keep a large supply of food because of hurricanes.   The American government can only go so far before it's own troops start to turn on them.  The idea is to keep them at bay until the common American soldier starts to question his orders.  The only real threat to America is the UN, they are worse then any Muslim terrorist.


You do realize that the well runs on electricity, and that you'd need some other form of power to keep it running.

Not an insult at all, we just need to realize how the stuff we take for granted runs because of other utilities.
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Offline Xargos

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« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2007, 12:34:50 PM »
Yup, got an old hand crank generator. :D  Does take a lot of cranking though.:(


Wonder if I should get a small solar panel to help with that.

P.S.  I went two weeks without running water after Hurricane Hugo came through.  Not fun at all.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 12:45:11 PM by Xargos »
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Angus

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« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2007, 12:56:04 PM »
Charon:
"Of course, the Nazi's were killing Jews in a foreign city. Here' the military would be tasked with killing friends, family and fellow citizens either directly or as collateral damage while destroying home towns, etc. Any assault on a massed resistance where there was any question about the validity of the resistance would be a non starter."


What setup do you use as a comparison.
Pre war Germany had several hundred thousands of jews. They got "ausgerotten" down to what, - 1000? Those Jews were Germans!
Same went with many other countries. Several officials did turn in on their own countrymen under fascist rule. They would do it even if they didn't have a special gain in it. And some would out of fear.
Facsist/Nazi control really did manage to bite in properly.
You wouldn't have to "storm" areas, and you wouldn't need the military except to guard a sideline, you have special troops for such a job, and you don't do all 1% in one go.

Say the U.S. government turns on a group of......1% of the population 3 million people. ?? Say...all from arabic origin. Say that the official goal was to "camp them up". Would it be possible?

Maybe I ask to much, but I think it would.... The liberals make it less likely though :D
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline JB88

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« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2007, 01:01:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
Yup, got an old hand crank generator. :D  Does take a lot of cranking though.:(


Wonder if I should get a small solar panel to help with that.

P.S.  I went two weeks without running water after Hurricane Hugo came through.  Not fun at all.


windmill might be easier.




;)
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2007, 01:06:10 PM »
Hurricane Hugo? The one from 1990?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Xargos

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« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2007, 01:14:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Hurricane Hugo? The one from 1990?


1989.
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Offline Charon

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« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2007, 01:50:49 PM »
Quote
Pre war Germany had several hundred thousands of jews. They got "ausgerotten" down to what, - 1000? Those Jews were Germans!
Same went with many other countries. Several officials did turn in on their own countrymen under fascist rule. They would do it even if they didn't have a special gain in it. And some would out of fear.
Facsist/Nazi control really did manage to bite in properly.
You wouldn't have to "storm" areas, and you wouldn't need the military except to guard a sideline, you have special troops for such a job, and you don't do all 1% in one go.

Say the U.S. government turns on a group of......1% of the population 3 million people. ?? Say...all from arabic origin. Say that the official goal was to "camp them up". Would it be possible?

Maybe I ask to much, but I think it would.... The liberals make it less likely though


The Jews were an oppressed minority, considered as a society apart from the formal German culture. Gypsies and Homosexuals as well. Non mainstream and beyond mainstream concern by the German people, unfortunately. One of the video presenters at the Imperial War Museum Holocaust Exhibit said as much, to paraphrase: "My one regret is that we didn't get to know our neighbors better."

Also, one of the first things the Nazis also did was revoke the rights of Jews to own firearms. If you are a powerless minority than too bad, no one will care when the special squads roll over you. And of course, there was the functional history of rolling with the pogroms and surviving as a people after some bloodshed that just didn't work under the Nazi model. Like non resistance to hijacking before 911.

FWIW, although urban American Jews are one of the more liberal forces in the country and often at odds with the 2nd Amendment, one of the most rabid defenders of the 2nd Amendment is Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership. There was just a big discussion among Jewish gun owners on one of the gun sites about the inability of some of their brothers and sisters to learn this particular lesson from history.

As to "camping them up." I don't see the repression of a minority in the US, at least formally, along the lines of what happened to the Japanese. We all know that's bad now :) Perhaps a lot of informal hate and violence should there be a devastating strike, etc. -- 911 with a nuke for example. That makes the ownership of a firearm for self protection important for such minorities just as it was for blacks after the civil war. In fact, much of our current firearm regulation has roots in the attempt of whites to deny blacks firearm ownership.

I also think that an a successful nuclear terrorist attack could easily lead to an interim government focused on security at the expense of rights and that the ability of the American people to roll that back once the hysteria is passed is enhanced by being able to back up our concerns. You may like your martial law powers and suspended elections, but we think it's time to change...


Charon

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2007, 01:53:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
WOLVERINES!!!!!



:D


seems many here take this movie alittle too seriously.
If there was a real invasion all the lazs in the country would not make a dent. Like Hortlund stated, our enemy would not fight a civilized war that we try to fight these days.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2007, 01:57:13 PM »
eagler... seems that you are the one taking the movie too seriously...

An invasion is an absurd thing to think about.. in that case you would have both the army and the people fighting.  

A group of cuban paratroopers is not gonna do it.

lazs