Night of the Broken Glass

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Two questions.

1) How well do you think an "armed citizenry" would fare against an invader? It might have worked in 1776, but in 2007, most invaders come armed with tanks and aircraft.  

Well, the Afghans did pretty good against the soviets

[lazs2]

LOL...  it is absolutely true that the whiny liberal socialists here think that the US can't defeat a few thousand iraqi's but that they could crush 8 million (10% of the armed population) or so armed citizens...

Soo... in order to not look too foolish they first say... "but yeah... that is cause the US army is too kind in iraq and they would turn into stalin against you"

Yeah.. that would work...  What do you think the cops and the army would do if their own government asked em to do that?  

Then... cause that is such a stupid thing to say.. they compound it with the statement made by the guy who knows nothing about firearms...

That... "we don't have RPG's so we couldn't win with the 50 caliber sniper rifles and semi auto weapons we have."

This is just plain dumb... For the type of fights we would have we have the best weapons... I don't even want a full auto 223.   If I did find I wanted one... I would simply remove it from the dead guys hands.


And... JB... you don't hang out with the right poles.. they guy is a sissy and you can tell em for me.  I know a pole and some russians who are citizens now...  I went to the range with em and we shot the crap out my guns and theirs.   they would call your friend a sissy too.

Plenty of American estrogen filled types are freightened of guns and don't want anyone to have em... it is not a surprise that you could find one or two brainwashed poles too.

lazs

[bozon]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, the Afghans did pretty good against the soviets

I'd love to see americans living like afghans even for just a week... Afghan TV is terrible.

[PanzerIV]

Originally posted by JB88
lol.

beach or county?

County.

[PanzerIV]

Originally posted by bozon
I'd love to see americans living like afghans even for just a week... Afghan TV is terrible.

I dont know about Afghan TV but Iranian TV for kids is basically a show about suicide bombers jumping off cliffs with alot of bombs and detontating above trucks full of Jewish soldiers. Very disturbing especially when the children and women start cheering.

[PanzerIV]

alright, they didnt have the cartoon I saw easily findable but heres this, it shows how much Iran TV sucks.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7695557866349652449

[JB88]

Originally posted by PanzerIV
County.

<---beach


still pretty close though.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by lazs2

Yeah.. that would work...  What do you think the cops and the army would do if their own government asked em to do that?  

To be perfectly honest with you, I'd imagine many would.  I know this is going to be *extremely* unpopular to say on this board but, uh...  Not every soldier of ours enlisted out of patriotism or love of country...  Many did so for money.  And the money's not that good.

I'm just saying - if you get a general as charismatic as Caesar, offering bonuses on the same scale as Caesar...  You're going to get a rebellion rate on par with Caesar's.  It's a huge part of the reason the 2nd Amendment is so vital to protect.

And... JB... you don't hang out with the right poles.. they guy is a sissy and you can tell em for me.  I know a pole and some russians who are citizens now...  I went to the range with em and we shot the crap out my guns and theirs.   they would call your friend a sissy too.

Yep...  While we're over here talking about Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc., no one's mentioned Warsaw yet.  Sure, they lost in the end, but those Poles in '44 put up a ferocious fight.  Imagine that happening in every major city across a country, and you've got a pretty good idea of what an invasion of the US would look like.

[JB88]

the only way that an invasion the size of that which happened in poland could
happen is if mexico...oh wait...nevermind.




- it is worth noting that they had to bring troops in from western china to slaughter the people in tianimen square...so we'd probably have a heads up if we heard that they were moving texan guard units around the country to start slaughtering us.

[Slash27]

Why Texans?

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Slash27
You being the expert on all thing coming out of your mouth and all.

Who says i'm an expert ???? You????

I never said that...

















......wait.....what the hell did i say????

[wrag]

Originally posted by Vudak
To be perfectly honest with you, I'd imagine many would.  I know this is going to be *extremely* unpopular to say on this board but, uh...  Not every soldier of ours enlisted out of patriotism or love of country...  Many did so for money.  And the money's not that good.

I'm just saying - if you get a general as charismatic as Caesar, offering bonuses on the same scale as Caesar...  You're going to get a rebellion rate on par with Caesar's.  It's a huge part of the reason the 2nd Amendment is so vital to protect.

 

Yep...  While we're over here talking about Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc., no one's mentioned Warsaw yet.  Sure, they lost in the end, but those Poles in '44 put up a ferocious fight.  Imagine that happening in every major city across a country, and you've got a pretty good idea of what an invasion of the US would look like.

Thought they were Jewish Poles?

[lazs2]

vudak... "many" is not enough.   the more you strayed from American values the more soldiers who would desert.

And.. unlike the government.. the citizens wouldn't need more than about 10% backing.

As for an invasion...  not a good idea in a country where everyone is armed.

The only way it would work is if the invaders were seen to be liberators.

lazs

[Charon]

We have a total active and reserve force of about 2.6 million. We have over 90 million firearm owners in the US. We have about four times as many gun owners in the US as there are people in Iraq.

As Lazs points out, even 10 percent armed resistance would dwarf the US military. Throw in some heavy handed carpet bombing here or there and you likley have 30 million armed resisters. Given  at least some lingering respect for the Constitution at such a time in the future, you could at best expect lukewarm support among a purged military that would start to evaporate as the collateral damage mounted. This would also apply to the general support for the tyrannical government among those citizens that accepted whatever argument was being sold.

More collateral damage, less support, more armed resistance. The powerful ordnance, not enough anyway IMO, are neutered.

Of course, this is exactly why we have the 2nd in the first place, as James Madison outlined in Federalist 46:

Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the Federal Government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State Governments with the people on their side would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield in the United States an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the late successful resistance of this country against the British arms will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it.

Against a foreign invader...
The same applies, but in support of the military. It really is an absurd argument though.

Charon

[Angus]

Originally posted by Xargos
I knew about the event, but never that it had a name.  To me this is a very good reason for not depending on the State to protect you from harm.

Kristallnacht


Edited for improper sentence structure.

This was the "State". Anti-jew. Nazi government.

As for if the government wanted to bend it's own citizens in the USA, have you considered the govt assisted by the military just taking over key points like powergrids, water supplies, comms, and key transport?
You can have all the ammo in the world, but no food, no water, no service, and no connection except the verbal one.
The army just needs to have a whole grip on these key points for the govt to rule. As a point, remember what  has been happening in the USA post catastrophies. Service-out for just a few days has caused riots and heavy vandalism.
Many nations have dealt with such for an incredibly long time, but those were maybe different cultures.
It's not about the authorities being able to boot into every home, it's the other way around.