Author Topic: English for beginners...  (Read 5819 times)

Offline 2bighorn

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« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2007, 02:30:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
If every single black person in the world was offended by the n word, your argument would have some standing...
...But, not every single black person is.
 
But most of black americans are, for a good reason. Mere 4 decades ago racial segregation was common occurrence. As long as racism is well and alive in our great country, N word will be offensive here. Many of them experienced it first hand.




You can argue as much as you want, it really comes down to ignorance.

(hopefully word ignorance does not offend you)

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2007, 02:30:50 PM »
Offense can only be taken, not given.

With regards to bighorn's Pyle quote- consider also what the Japanese thought of us during the war.
mook
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Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way towards people paying attention to your posts.  -Stoney
I was wondering why I get ignored so often.  -Hitech

Offline Laciner

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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2007, 02:32:41 PM »
Perhaps you could say IJN, or IJA, rather than Jap.

"Brit" isn't quite on the same level as "Jap", because British is a nationality - a nation of nations - whereas Japanese is both a nationality and an ethnicity. Jap isn't the kind of thing you would use in polite conversation, and there's no point trying to rationalise that, because language and society are not rational. Rationalising slur words is like trying to impose the Queensberry Rules on a war; nice idea, wrong moggy.

Speaking as a British person, "Brit" is incredibly mild, milder than "Yank" or "Ocker", considerably milder than "Kraut". It's odd that my ancestors had so many words for the Jerries, but the sausage-eaters just had "Tommy" or "Englander schweinhund" in return. "Brit" sounds like the kind of thing an American might say if he wanted to give the impression that he was friends with a British person.

In the context of aircraft, most ethnicities or national terms are shaky because the planes were flown by so many national air forces; I'm sure a Finnish 109 pilot would be miffed if you called him a "Kraut". The IJN/IJA planes are ironically one of the few exceptions to this, as they were AFAIK not flown by non-Japanese forces during WW2 or, if they were, it was very obscure.

(ps I originally referenced "Diamonds are Forever", the bit when Bond shoots the cat, and Blofed says "Right idea, Mr Bond, but wrong cat", except that he doesn't say cat; amusingly, and understandably, it was turned into asterisks. At least in the UK the rhymes-with-plussy word has a tiny, tiny vestige of its former meaning)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 02:36:32 PM by Laciner »

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2007, 02:43:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn

You can argue as much as you want, it really comes down to ignorance.

(hopefully word ignorance does not offend you)


Yeah, but bighorn...  Uh...  I know our school systems are horrible and all, but I have my doubts that the black people who aren't offended by the term are ignorant to its history.

Personally, I think Hubs nailed it.  Offence is only taken.

With that, I'm going to bow on out of this conversation.

Vudak
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Offline 2bighorn

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« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2007, 02:46:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
With regards to bighorn's Pyle quote- consider also what the Japanese thought of us during the war.
Racism and usage of term 'Jap" started long before war. Besides what they did doesn't make right what we did.

You can take history as it happened and learn something out of it, or you ignore it and continue to use half assed excuses and feel good about it. It's your choice, you're free man.

I know my choice...

Offline ghi

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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2007, 02:51:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn
But most of black americans are, for a good reason. Mere 4 decades ago racial segregation was common occurrence. As long as racism is well and alive in our great country, N word will be offensive here. Many of them experienced it first hand.




You can argue as much as you want, it really comes down to ignorance.

(hopefully word ignorance does not offend you)


that foto reminds me about a great movie : "AMISTAD", with Morgan Freeman and Anthony Hopkins

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2007, 02:53:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
that foto reminds me about a great movie : "AMISTAD", with Morgan Freeman and Anthony Hopkins


You want to know which town fed and housed the men from Amistad after they won their court date and were waiting for people to raise enough funds for their return home? :)

(Woulda been nice for Hollywood to mention that, but oh well, it's Hollywood)

One's buried in the same cemetary as my friend...  Maybe I'll take pictures some time if anyone's interested.
Vudak
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Offline 2bighorn

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« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2007, 02:55:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak and Hubsonfire
Offense can only be taken, not given.
Most ignorant statement I've ever seen on this forum.

Offline lengro

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« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2007, 02:56:00 PM »
ok - it seems I shouldn't feel to bad about my english since the topic is debatable amongst native english speakers :)

PS
2bighorn, haven't seen you flying in a long time, I sincerely hope you plan to return someday!
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!" Tuco - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Offline Furball

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« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2007, 02:57:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ozrocker
I can't see "Jap" being offensive. In WW2 the term "Nip" was more of a derogatory term than Jap, or so I thought.

                                                                        Oz


I discussed this with Taki a long time ago.  He said they associate "Jap" with "Yellow Monkey".  Which is why they find it offensive, which is why it shouldn't really be said.

I did say that i never knew of the association and i am sure most people were not aware of it.
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
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Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2007, 02:59:21 PM »
I'm a Finn.  You can use that one.  We don't care (at least us American Finns).
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline FBBone

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« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2007, 03:01:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Trip01
But I wouldn't expect you yanks to understand that  ;)

Trip


lol Trip, it didn't go unnoticed!

We're talking about a word here, more precisely an adjective.  In "Jap plane", it is simply a descriptor, and an abbreviation of the word "Japanese", for the plane that is of Japanese origin.  It is not used in a derogatory way.

Offline jamusta

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« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2007, 03:02:45 PM »
vudak,

most black folks are offended by the n word. who you see using it is not the majority. I can relate as to why some japanese are offended by using jap. its probably viewed the same.

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2007, 03:14:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by jamusta
vudak,

most black folks are offended by the n word. who you see using it is not the majority. I can relate as to why some japanese are offended by using jap. its probably viewed the same.


Jam, you're my friend, and I don't mean to offend you by this, but the majority doesn't always have the best idea.

Is it better to get offended by a word or shrug it off and not let it bother you?  That's all I'm trying to say here.

2Bighorn...  If you knew who I am in real life, you might not toss around the "ignorant" comment so much.  I'd honestly bet I'm a top 3 contender on this BBS for people who've had the most opportunity to be offended by something...  I just don't let it get to me.

I can never just bow out :)
Vudak
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Offline Ghastly

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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2007, 03:15:13 PM »
Yeesh...  Sometimes I think the only truly inalienable right that people possess is to idiocy!

 Once you are informed that a group of people *MIGHT* find a certain reference to them offensive, why would you continue to use it?  

For lengro - feel badly that you might have offended someone unintentionally, and then take care to not do so again.  And no, you are not alone in needing to have it pointed out to you - even those of us who speak English natively but have had little exposure to Japanese culture are usually unaware of it's negative connotations until someone takes us aside.  For me, it was an Australian player who lives in Japan.

"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue