English for beginners...

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by Hoffman
If it were partnered with an insult, ie:  "That stupid little Jap son of a ...", well then I could understand taking offense.  And the person referring to someone in that manner probably deserves to be staked over an anthill...

But... "Jap plane 6 O'Clock high, break break!"
How is there any insult there?  I'm at a loss over here.  Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.  Or maybe I'm applying the wrong logic. [/B]

I'm inclined to agree with you, it is merely an abbreviation, but Rolex makes a firm point. It's the same thing we Australians have with Aboriginals. Shortening the word 'Aboriginal' to 'Abo' is considered offensive. It is considered to be in league with any other racial slurs that are intentionally designed to belittle the race.


People just need to learn to moderate their language to suit their current situation, not only in the game but in life in general.

In order to best achieve effective communication with others you must modify your approach to most appropriately suit the situation.

In this situation (Aces High BBS or in-game), where you are surrounded by hundreds of people you don't know, always assume that there will be people who are easily offended and modify your speech or text to suit this.

If you're on squad channel, go nuts (provided your squadies feel the same way as you do), otherwise.... just use a bit of 'situational awareness'.

 

When it comes down to it, it is no easier to say "Jap Plane" then it is to just call its ID tag, so a wise man would stick to calling ID tags on range channel.

[lyric1]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
No, but Limey can be offensive to some.

 No call them Pommys that should do it.

[68Boomer]

I didn't even read all 4 pages of this, because they all probably say the same thing in different ways, so what follows may already have been written.

Every WORD mentioned are just that....WORDS....a combination of letters making a sound. The ONLY way that WORDS become offensive is if one places such a high value in the person saying them, they become offensive.

Don't place such high value in someone who doesnt know you personally and those words will never be offensive.

[Sloehand]

I know I'm going to get really flamed for this, but...

It seems really strange, even asinine to see a huge thread in THIS community's forum discussing the rights and wrongs of using a single word that might or might not be offensive to a nationality that has at best a very minor presence here (though I understand the associated PC factor that gets everyone so righteous).  Especially when, at the same time, a large number of posters here, and certainly players in the game, think nothing of throwing insults and incriminations back and forth with the sole purpose of irritating and offending others, albeit without the useful assistance of a 'trigger' ethnic or racial slur.

Yes, there is a bit of difference in the circumstances and historical inference involved between these two, but really, talk about a paradox wrapped inside an enigma.

P.S.  And most of you, inspite of some surprisingly good intentions and coming fairly close, really missed the important and driving elements of this issue.  I am once again fascinated by something truly disturbing about people in general.  Most really don't know, understand or care about the purpose and mechanics of communication, or cultural bias that can disrupt it.

'The Americans and British, two peoples separated by a common language.'    (a paraphrase)  LOL

[Sloehand]

Originally posted by Xasthur


In order to best achieve effective communication with others you must modify your approach to most appropriately suit the situation.

 

I missed this small glimmer of light in my first run through the posts.  Though a minor spark at best, it's on the right path to the fire.

Can't say the same for the rest of this post, but baby steps.  Baby steps.

[B3YT]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Calm down redrum.  This has nothing to do with being "PC".  I detest that term as well.  It has everything to do with being respectful and mindful of being part of an international community.

quite interesting i work for a car parts company .  we import japanese parts from japan . The company we import from is call "jap car parts" . Funny they are a japanese company owned by a japanese busness man and partly sponsored by Honda/subaru/toyota.

[B3YT]

Originally posted by lyric1
No call them Pommys that should do it.

and it's pommy B*****DS

LOL

[NHawk]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Before, during, and after WWII the Japanese have been quite racist themselves. They considered the other asian nations to be lesser racers, subhumans, etc, and the same extended to the european race.  And much of this still exists today.

Internment camps were far better treatment than that the japs gave those aussies and brits got when singapore fell.

I was trying so hard to stay out of this thread when I read your reply. Especially that last sentence. I think you may need a history lesson....

Internment camps held AMERICAN CITIZENS of Japanese heritage in camps in the United States. They were NOT prisoners of war.

Soon after the beginning of World War II, Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. This order commenced the round-up of 120,000 Americans of Japanese heritage to one of 10 internment camps—officially called "relocation centers"—in California, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, and Arkansas.

Roosevelt's executive order was fueled by anti-Japanese sentiment among farmers who competed against Japanese labor, politicians who sided with anti-Japanese constituencies, and the general public, whose frenzy was heightened by the Japanese attack of Pearl Harbor. More than 2/3 of the Japanese who were interned in the spring of 1942 were citizens of the United States.

With that said, you are correct on prisoners of war being mistreated. But to compare that to internment camps is plain wrong. As the idea of internment camps was wrong in the first place.

[yanksfan]

Originally posted by Laciner
Perhaps you could say IJN, or IJA, rather than Jap.


Speaking as a British person, "Brit" is incredibly mild, milder than "Yank" or "Ocker", considerably milder than "Kraut". It's odd that my ancestors had so many words for the Jerries, but the sausage-eaters just had "Tommy" or "Englander schweinhund" in return. "Brit" sounds like the kind of thing an American might say if he wanted to give the impression that he was friends with a British person.

 

Just for the record, I take no offence when a britt calls me Yanks.

                                   (Yanks)   Don

[Trip01]

Originally posted by NHawk

With that said, you are correct on prisoners of war being mistreated. But to compare that to internment camps is plain wrong. As the idea of internment camps was wrong in the first place.

The whole idea that using a term people object to can be justified on the basis of events during WW2 which had absolutely nothing to do with them is completely ridiculous.

Apparently there is at least one Japanese AH player who genuinely finds the term offensive. That is the end of the issue for me: I will not use that term and nor should anyone who knows this.

Trip

[Ghosth]

From Dec 7 1941  to the end of the war the 3 letter J word was used as a swear word, an epithet. I still have uncles alive today who use it, and who still hate the Japanese people as much as they did back then. The way they use it, the look in their eyes, the way they spit it out of their mouth. If you were Japanese and heard them you would be offended. Heck it offends me.

What the Japanese did at Pearl and other places was wrong. Yet they felt it was necessary for them to grow and survive. What we did to them to end the war was also wrong, yet also necessary.  We can not turn back history and prevent this war.

What we can do is work on losing the hate. To me, the 3 letter J word is just another way of keeping the hate alive. My uncles, and anyone else who actually fought against them in WWII have IMO earned the right to use it.

No one has else earned that right.

As for the difference between Brit and the J word. Well the Bloody Brits didn't come over and blow the crap out of NY harbor recently have they? "Brits" wasn't used as an epithet for 5 years of a terrible bloody war. As a result it has a very different emotional feel to it for those who hear it.

What we do here is simulate WWII combat, and thats fine. It honors all those who fought and died on both sides. What we do NOT need to do here is to simulate the hate. Its long long past time to let that die. As a result we all should be just a bit more careful about causing offense. If that makes me a tree hugger and a bleeding heart Liberal, well fine, conservative as I am, I can live with that.

If I have a dream, its that someday ALL wars will be played out here, virtually, so that no one never needs to experience wars hell firsthand ever again.

Its perhaps not a realistic dream, but growing up with my uncles first hand accounts of war, seeing the physical damage it inflicted. And growing up  in the shadow of the cold war. I can think of no better future for mankind, than to find a way to put the violence behind us.

As posted above, IJA/IJN  JP, or others will convey the meaning just as well without the attached emotional baggage. It was NOT my intention to start this war again.  So please let it end here, all of you.

It was my "intention" to take one good, solid, AH player who has english as his second language. And raise his awareness about this word just a little bit.
Its not about being PC, its about having just a little bit of respect and courtesy for everyone you meet.  It costs you nothing, yet can gain you so very very much.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Karnak
You can be an ******* if you like and claim it is just anti-Political Correctness, but you are wrong, you're just an ******* making excuses for being an *******.

Couldn't agree more, Karnak, although I think perhaps he won't get it if you don't spell it out.

- oldman

[Ghastly]

Its not about being PC, its about having just a little bit of respect and courtesy for everyone you meet. It costs you nothing, yet can gain you so very very much.

Hear hear.

True words.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by yanksfan
Just for the record, I take no offence when a britt calls me Yanks.

 

I find it offensive when foreigners refer to American's as Yankees.  But I'm from ther South and we have a different meaning for "Yankee" here.


On topic:  I'm an anti-PC person.  I think it's completely ridiculous at times.  This one I can see it.  You or a close loved one live through something liek that, you have a right to be offended.
Easy solution that some mentioned earlier.  Call out A6M, or KI on you.  You defeat this problem, and it gives them a better idea of what they need to do...  you handle the A6M a little different than the KIs.

[Latrobe]

I am not offended by the term's "spittydweeb", "Vulcher", or "Marty"


Just do as Tiger said, see a zeke call out zeke or zero or A6M. See a Ki84 (at 17K cherry picking) call out Ki or 84, or skilless cherry picking dweeb.