Author Topic: reversals and snapshots  (Read 2087 times)

Offline B@tfinkV

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reversals and snapshots
« on: September 17, 2007, 08:58:44 PM »
quick film, shows a reversal on two enemy planes at once. the reversals are simple to follow. the snapshot on the spitfire (S! oz) was a lucky one, but it mostly goes to back up something that an old timer of the game told me: "gunnery is not about thinking, when you feel the shot is right, then it is. dont waste time thinking."

hope some might find this enjoyable and/or informative to watch.


http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/Chog_snapshot.ahf



bat

S!
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Offline Black Jack

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 09:46:49 AM »
Hey Bat, that was a nice shot on the spit. I would like to know if their is a constant, or known distance when u go up in your reverse or maybe a specific view that is your cue. I'll try to explain. Most of the time when i do the reverse move like u did, which is to bank hard on one side, i tend to over turn. I mean i cover too many degrees back into my opponent so when i pull up, roll over and come back down, i'm usually not in gun ranges anymore. I see u guys doing it over and over and tried different distances to start banking but it's not happening too often that the nme plane will be in my gun sight like u guys do. If they do it's 50/50 that he just pulled in the wrong spot of the sky.  I watched Murder's film as well but can't figure out exactly when to start to go up to roll over. Of course i died a lot too by pulling too soon and the con just followed me up and blew me out of the sky. What could i do to try to improve on this? I know that the timing will come with time, but if u don't seek for the answer u can try for a very long time.  I tried to explain the best way i could but it's hard to write it down. Thank you.:aok

Offline TequilaChaser

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 09:58:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Black Jack
their is  a specific view that is your cue.  


you pretty much answered your own question with out knowing it ;)

and yes it will take time and practice to polish this habit/skill.......think of it as a mental picture you scan and store in your brain, to call upon when you are in this situation, learn your timing...


btw  Black Jack, you might want to edit or change your sig material......
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 10:00:35 AM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Murdr

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 02:09:22 PM »
That kind of shot comes down to tracking the bogie in a side or up view, while guiding your nose so it will be pointing at their future flight path.  It is 80% a blind shot (ie. not viewing through the gunsight).  Either you guessed right and they are going to cross through your guns or not.  A snapshot by definition is just a very brief opportunity to throw some lead in their crossing flight path.

As far as the reversal/barrel roll defense/(converting a flight path overshoot into a 3-9 line overshoot)...Unless the attacker goes for the shot on you hook line and sinker, it is unlikely you will have much of a shot opportunity on them when you exit.  My point being, you can do everything perfect, and not have a short range shot because the bogie didn't cooperate.  If you are consistantly denying them a shot, and are in a tail chase a few seconds later, it's a good start.  From there it comes down to fine tuning the angles (on the fly), and narrowing the margin that their shot misses you by (drawing them in very close).  This comes with time.

Offline B@tfinkV

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2007, 12:52:05 AM »
i cannot contend with the answers of guys like these jack, thank you TC, murdr. you help me understand what happens late on weekends after ive been three sheets to the wind and flying around. i never really think about the mathematics of flying but have learnt how to make the images on the screen instantly case a reaction on the stick and manipulating the aircraft doesnt require much thought. I am always appreciative of critisism and analysis from you guys and am never looking for a virtual wtg or praise. i post em so hopefully people can show me what i could do better not applaud what little i might have done correctly.

the only thing i would add to you black jack is notice how the spitfire fights with a sense of fairplay. as i am pulling round on thier dive attacks the spitfire has the option to pull tighter and force me into a ho situation and possible collision. he respects the fact that i had powerfull guns on him first and if he keeps pulling tnto me we will both be shooting and both get hit. Its a 2 on 1 fight and he does the honourable thing of turning side on to avoid a Ho or ram and reposition for the kill, this generosity by freak lucky shot costs him the fight. that sense of fairplay gains him far more of my respect than i could gain by hitting 100 freak snapshots.

S! Mjtalon for great 109 flying.
and thank you ozrocker for letting me have that small chance in an uneven fight, there are not many like you.
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Offline humble

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2007, 10:14:10 AM »
Bat and I spend a fair amount of time fooling around in the DA. The one thing that constantly amazes me is how well he judges my shot window and angles. He literally "see's" my shot solution. Even with good sticks alot of the time your actual shot setup is pretty solid....with bat he's always evading right as your going to pull the trigger.

This is a learnable skill and is not really an ACM skill but a "views" skill. The better you are at keeping the con and his flight path in sight the better chance you have to convert those type of shots...

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Offline Black Jack

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2007, 12:05:34 PM »
Thank you guys, I think I'm pretty much on the right track then. It's just a matter of putting the time in to learn to feel the situation as much as looking at it and put my plane at the right position. I think the major difference between a rookie like me and guys like u is that when u pull the trigger, you guys don't miss much. We can fly as good as we want and be at the right spot at the right time but when u have this split second chance to shoot and u miss, it's a whole new game. Snaphook says he's not too good at gunnery but the day i will be able to fly my spitfire the way he flys an A20 vs many :)  I will be very happy. :aok  Thanks again.;)

Offline evenhaim

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 02:06:52 PM »
ty batt for sharing, you shoulda seen me and domin in da yest in spits was snapshots galore
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Offline B@tfinkV

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couple more
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 11:15:40 AM »
here are a couple of good examples of a reversal against the BnZ attack.

Mosquito vs 190

109K4 vs Nik2j


pretty crazy stuff, the physics of the 109 vs nik reversal is hard to imagine without seeing it. look at the speeds of the attacker and defender at the moment before and after the pass. just believe that any high con is your next kill and you will get it, if you consider the high bogey to be an 'untouchable threat' to you then you are already letting them win before they attack.

bat
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Offline MajWoody

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2007, 11:49:56 PM »
The best illistration I've seen on film of this move is one Morpheus made called My Darling. He made it when the Spixteen first came out. I used to have that film but lost it in a re-format.

 Anyone still have that vid?

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Offline B@tfinkV

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2007, 06:56:40 AM »
please post it, i would love to see it.

i remember one of morpheus' videos showing Leviathn in a spit doing these reversals, they really helped me get my head round the move and i will always be thankfull to those gents for the help and demos i used to enjoy so much.

would you post it for us morpheus?
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Offline MjTalon

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2007, 07:01:41 AM »
LOL! I just finishe watching it and that's the C hog i got shot down by a long time ago lols, wtg  batfink on shooting me down ya bugger :( I'll get ya next time

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Offline B@tfinkV

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2007, 07:14:19 AM »
oh noes MjTalon has found us at it!  runawayquickly!

:D

S! sir, i think you already did shoot me down the next sortie.
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Offline MjTalon

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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2007, 11:41:12 AM »
oh yeah i DID shoot you down :D  hehe guess were evening

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Offline Morpheus

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reversals and snapshots
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 05:48:30 AM »
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