Ava Development group

[Mister Fork]

For those of you who are members, please read Easyscor's recent posting regarding maps...

[TheBug]

I'm sorry, and no offense to Easycor, but seeing that map really makes me fear for any hope for the AvA.  This endless desire to make the AvA a second DA is what keeps the numbers down.  The highpoint of the CT was really centered upon the squads that populated it.  Without them it will remain a limited planeset DA that can barely draw in 10 people.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by TheBug
I'm sorry, and no offense to Easycor, but seeing that map really makes me fear for any hope for the AvA.  This endless desire to make the AvA a second DA is what keeps the numbers down.  The highpoint of the CT was really centered upon the squads that populated it.  Without them it will remain a limited planeset DA that can barely draw in 10 people.

Bug, don't you think that too many squads are wedded to their aircraft type (or chess piece) to believe that they'll ever be regular AvA squads again?  Heck, even the JG54 people stay away during PAC events.

- oldman

[TheBug]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Bug, don't you think that too many squads are wedded to their aircraft type (or chess piece) to believe that they'll ever be regular AvA squads again?  Heck, even the JG54 people stay away during PAC events.

- oldman

No I don't believe that.  Historical Arena is how I envisioned the CT.  Fighting arena is how I see the current AvA.  It has a very vocal and opinionated group of people that are sticking up for what they enjoy/believe in.  Not that I can blame them.  But this "for the good of the loud few over the good of the many" would need to stop to see people return.  Make it historical.  Screw the 1-1 bowlsheet and the no HOs.  That structured format can be easily found/setup in the DA.  Give the players an arena that can't be found anywhere in AH outside of scheduled events.  Give them a historical arena.  If there is no desire for such a thing, than I feel sorry for HTC developing Combat Tour.

But I don't want to get into it too much, because emotions start to come into play and people (myself included) start to get pissed off.  Just thought I'd inject a little.  Gave a the AvA a try again a few months ago, no place for a squad to operate so we left.  Still hoping and praying for a home again.  As I am sure many of the historical based squads are.

[Easyscor]

I nearly broke my neck running to look in the bathroom mirror. My eyes don't look bloodshot and my tongue isn't covered with white spots, my skin isn't blotchy and there's no pus oozing from open sores.

I’m completely mystified how I could find myself healthy and agreeing with The Bug so completely but there it is.  Guess I'll crawl back under the hood and get to work on the assignment. Don't despair, there are other things in the pipeline if you want to expand on that theme.

My own view would bring back large historical terrains with easier base captures, not harder, to encourage small 5-6 man squads to go in, who could accomplish something in two hours. I was thinking of something along the lines of the old AH1 towns to cause a fluid war front.

As for PAC setups, they'll never do as well as they should until the holes in the planeset are filled, and maybe not even then.

Ouch, ouch, ouch! Put that hickory stick down Mister Fork.

[TheBug]

You're not sick.

You're just coming to your senses.

[KONG1]

I agree that many like "Historical". A lot participate in scenarios and that is probably the closest to "Historical" you can get.  I think people will like CT and it will be reasonably "Historical" and fun because the boring parts of "Historical" will be removed.

Scenarios work because of a lot of organization/planning and players agreeing to a set time and specific role.

CT will work ok because the organization is programmed in and the empty slots are filled in by AI.

That being said, I don't really know what is meant by saying an open arena should be more "Historical". You make the planes, fm, skins, terrains, matchups "historical" - then what?

[humble]

I'm not trying to be antagonistic...I'd actually like to see the AvA take off. My perspective (and again its one viewpoint) is that the moment the squads arrived the CT died...

Why, because they rolled the map up in a few hours or altered the balance in numbers/style of gameplay and effectively chased 80% of the player base out.

you can easily create a combined arms skill based arena...

1) eliminate base capture entirely
2) only ords and fuel are porkable
3)limited pane sets at any field
4) only tactical jabo (no 4 engine strat bombers)
5) front line is fighter only with attack/buff birds out of deeper fields
6) a defined front line that is 3 to 5 objectives deep. Capturing all gorund objectives "turns off" the corresponding front line field till that sides 1st level is recaptured....

Use "shore batteries" and manned ack placements in the GV jabo defense roll. Use some city, town and clustered farm type stuff with traditional map rooms for "capture points" with some auto ack defense. clustered SB's could mimic hardened artillary...

You would have a real war that would combine all aspects of the game to simulate real objectives. To slog thru the "contested area" you would need significant Jabo assets, GV's etc. you'd have real targets...to attack and defend.

Lets say your last defense "city" had 3 maprooms guarded by 4 shore batteries plus a variety of "auto" and manned ack. you'd need a concentrated effort...or a jeep squad (based on capture #'s) timed to a 110 jabo to kill all the acks (just an example).

If your gonna go the combined arms route...give em a different war. One they cant get in the MA or scenario. You dont capture bases...you capture ground and towns....also if you can work it with current tiles (can you make custom ones?) then bridges/rivers with SB's ack. How tough was it to force the rhine...or the muese?

[ergRTC]

Very interesting and original suggestion humble.  I think it is worth a try.

[humble]

ergRTC....

I have no clue if what I wrote up is even possible....but if the intent is to go with a "capture" type enviornment then I think changing the nature of game play is paramount. Literally offer a different game using the same parts.

Buffers want to buff...well taking out the 3 "shore batteries" overlooking your sides line of advance is alot tougher and has an immediate impact  if you've got 2-3 squaddies waiting to roll thru...(just an example)

Basically every "skill" is now employed specific to winning a "real" ground war. Further...every skillset would be needed to win...you'd need guys who can furball, tank, Jabo and buff. If you eliminated individual "scoring" and only scored objectives (either by side or squad) you'd now have a "result" based system tied directly to the "war'.

[Mister Fork]

1) eliminate base capture entirely
2) only ords and fuel are porkable
3)limited pane sets at any field
4) only tactical jabo (no 4 engine strat bombers)
5) front line is fighter only with attack/buff birds out of deeper fields
6) a defined front line that is 3 to 5 objectives deep. Capturing all gorund objectives "turns off" the corresponding front line field till that sides 1st level is recaptured....

More great ideas. Thanks Humble.

1 - doable. We've been doing that already in setups time to time.
2 - Can do. Just need to adjust hardness of field objects.
3  - we've run setups like that. but its always a nice feature but hard to do in our large maps.
4 & 5 - we've run setups like that too. but I think we need more squads to help us out.
6 - in the works. ROC is workin on it.

[dedalos]

Just out of curiosity, what do you guys mean by historical set up?  Historical as in destroy 10 buildings, drop 10 guys and capture a base most likely undefended?  Is that historical in your opinion?  What really bothers you?  That your P51 may have to fight another P51?  Does that ruin your day or is it the BS about about HOing and ganging that bothers you?  You can still do that you know.  Everyone does it.  You guys act as if these things are unheard of in the AvA.  It is actually the norm, so dont let that misconception stop you.  Comon in and fly HOistoricly.

Nothing in this game is historical and your claim is that because plain sets are not, the AvA is empty?

[Trukk]

Originally posted by TheBug
Give the players an arena that can't be found anywhere in AH outside of scheduled events.  Give them a historical arena.

That's what I wish it was.

[KONG1]

Originally posted by Trukk
That's what I wish it was.

Originally posted by dedalos
Just out of curiosity, what do you guys mean by historical set up?

Originally posted by KONG1
That being said, I don't really know what is meant by saying an open arena should be more "Historical". You make the planes, fm, skins, terrains, matchups "historical" - then what?

[Trukk]

Historically Realistic:  A gaming experience that recreates, as much as possible a real combat mission, while at the same time being entertaining.

This means the focus is on flying and surviving the mission, like it was in real life.  It's not capturing bases, not furballing, etc.

It means turning off DotDar, pilots in WWII did not have a datalink to an AWACS.  One of the skills of a good WWII pilot was the ability to spot the enemy early.

It means that some missions will be milk runs, some you will get hammered and some you will be doing the hammering.

It means that the majority of the time a pilot will not be aware he is being attacked until he is being shot at.

It means that you will have to fly more than five minutes to the enemy, and if you get shot down you are out if it as the fight will have finished or moved on before you can fly back.

It means having gaming experinces that make you go "wow it was just like that book I read", not the History channel everything is instant action boiled down into 42 minutes.  I could go on, but basically it's what I'm hoping Combat Tour will be.