Author Topic: B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie  (Read 6386 times)

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #135 on: October 29, 2007, 03:27:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Motherland
Have you ever tried to catch a bomber at high altitudes? Its not easy, even against Lacasters and such. Either way, the B29 is yet FASTER.

At 15000 or 30000 feet, hitting a strat is childs play. Dont kid yourself.


And the real problem is the combination of speed & firepower. You don't even need to climb to 30K -20 will do.

If you ever hunted buffs at that alt, you know how difficult it is to properly setup several attacks even against slow bombers.  Even with speed & E advantage, because at that altitude it's easily gone.
Surely I  usually get them, but it happens rarely that I don't get pinged a few times while doing that. Now imagine that pings being 20mm rounds...
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #136 on: October 29, 2007, 03:42:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rich46yo
Actually my friend you have me a bit befuddled. You tell me Im dancing but you dont tell me what Im dancing around. And to make it worse your starting to blubber.

                        Answer the question: Is the B-29 performance stats with or without a full bombload? Your the one doing the dance.

                      Obviously a full bombload is going to slow it down. Right? I would also assume the specs on the airplane are without a bombload.

                     So your saying its just as easy hitting a single target from 30,000' as 15,000':rofl  Sure it is Jethro. Whatever you say.

                     And I still dont know what in heck you were talking about with that post. What is a "fluffer"? What does "ZOMG" mean?

Pound sand, look it up for yourself if you think it's wrong.

Fluffer is a pet term coined by laz for 1337 (that's read leet, short for elite for the older than dirt crowd) buff jocks.
Instead of a buffer he calls them fluffer.
Here is a link for ya to figure out why he uses term, enjoy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluffer
See Rule #4

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #137 on: October 29, 2007, 03:48:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Then why do you choose to ignore that bombing from alt is currently highly simplified?

[edit]Actually, if you know everything, why did you bother to start yet another b-29 thead?
Because for these numpties it's not ez enough.
It takes more practice estimating range in a tank than dropping ords from a buff.
See Rule #4

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #138 on: October 29, 2007, 05:03:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Pound sand, look it up for yourself if you think it's wrong.

Fluffer is a pet term coined by laz for 1337 (that's read leet, short for elite for the older than dirt crowd) buff jocks.
Instead of a buffer he calls them fluffer.
Here is a link for ya to figure out why he uses term, enjoy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluffer


                      Ahhh, I see. So its a derogatory term aimed at your elders right? Yaknow I graduated High School back in 1975 when we didn't need porn movies. We had the real life thing crawling all over us.

                    And just remember one thing, and it was a lesson I took to heart as a kid, A man who doesn't respect his elders will never be a "Man".

                   We've spun around this long enough and I am getting bored with it. No doubt your not a bad guy so I'll just buzz off the thread. Ive made all the points about the B-29 that I possibly could. !
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #139 on: October 29, 2007, 05:07:59 PM »
No it's a derogatory term aimed at buff pilots who think bombing is hard in AH.
And you have made no points about the 29, although your hyperbole is superb.
See Rule #4

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #140 on: October 30, 2007, 10:02:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
And the real problem is the combination of speed & firepower. You don't even need to climb to 30K -20 will do.

If you ever hunted buffs at that alt, you know how difficult it is to properly setup several attacks even against slow bombers.  Even with speed & E advantage, because at that altitude it's easily gone.
Surely I  usually get them, but it happens rarely that I don't get pinged a few times while doing that. Now imagine that pings being 20mm rounds...


AWWW... did those big bad bombers shoot at your itty bitty fighter? poor baby!
A successful fighter pilot will slash through a bomber formation and cause enough damage to put the buffs at a disadvantage (like the fighters don't have an advantage already).

 Let me get this straight... It's difficult to find and intercept the biggest aircraft in the game when they are flying at around 200 mph in a STRAIGHT LINE and at a constant altitude. Then, once you've accomplished the impossible intercept, it is hard to line up a shot that will ensure that you can pump enough 20mm rounds into the buffs so you can escape undamaged and land your 3 kills. If the bomber pilot is a good gunner and kills YOU he (or she) gets ONE. OK I get it. Please don't cry anymore... [wiping away the tears]

So all you really want is an honest advantage...

BTW try fighting off 262s and 163s in ANY heavy, then come back and tell me what's fair!
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #141 on: October 30, 2007, 10:16:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
AWWW... did those big bad bombers shoot at your itty bitty fighter? poor baby!



You should actually read my posting before reacting. That really helps :aok
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 10:26:06 AM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2007, 10:21:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Then why do you choose to ignore that bombing from alt is currently highly simplified?

[edit]Actually, if you know everything, why did you bother to start yet another b-29 thead?


1. I did not and am not ignoring that bombing is easier that it once was from high alt. Do you think there is a reason it is now simplified? Maybe the lack of bombing results was making air battles go on the deck taking away the "high" out of the low/mid/high air combat that makes this game realistic, fun and interesting. "Why go bomb from high alt if you can't hit squat?" or..." This sucks I'll join the furballin hoard and mob the [insert country name here]".  is what I'm sure many were thinking. There IS a built in difficulty to bombing from 30+ and that is the cloud decks that make it more difficult to calibrate accurately... I  didn't say impossible I said more difficult. It is not as easy as it it is when bombing from 10K AGL.

2. I started this thread because I wanted to see what others had to say and get information about the possibility of adding the Superfort (a  significant aircraft in WW2). Many of the readers have done just that, informed. I was unaware that there had been MANY B-29 threads. I'm not new to the game, but I am new to the forum. As I said above if you don't like the subject, you don't have to read and respond the thread. It IS a simple concept!
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2007, 10:26:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Apparently you have not no clue what you are talking about :)
You should actually read my posting before reacting. That really helps :aok


Fair enough... I did resort to sarcasim first. But I thought that your complaining that you sometimes get pinged when killing bombers merited sarcasim. I not only read but QUOTED your post my friend! By the length of your response can I assume that you didn't read my posting in response to yours?
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2007, 10:29:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
Fair enough... I did resort to sarcasim first. But I thought that your complaining that you sometimes get pinged when killing bombers merited sarcasim. I not only read but QUOTED your post my friend! By the length of your response can I assume that you didn't read my posting in response to yours?


I did read it.

And please note that there wasn't any complaining about being pinged my posting. I don't even complain when being shot down by them - which naturally happens more often at high alt than down low ;)

It merely stated that it's not that easy to kill buffs at 20k when compared to lower alts. And that's a fact, not a complain. And this statement was made in respect to the increased difficulty when facing a faster, better armed B-29 instead of our slower "less" armed B-17 & B-24s

Also it's not really aproblem to find buffs, not even at alt.
The only difficulty is to intercept them before they reach their target, which has a bit increased becaude the small maps we currently are playing on.

BTW, yesterday I happened to intercept a B-17 flight at 32-34k. Even in my P-47N, which rules up there, I had a really hard time to catch up and set up one attack
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 10:36:50 AM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline MajIssue

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
      • "False Prophets"
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2007, 02:09:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
I did read it.

And please note that there wasn't any complaining about being pinged my posting. I don't even complain when being shot down by them - which naturally happens more often at high alt than down low ;)

It merely stated that it's not that easy to kill buffs at 20k when compared to lower alts. And that's a fact, not a complain. And this statement was made in respect to the increased difficulty when facing a faster, better armed B-29 instead of our slower "less" armed B-17 & B-24s

Also it's not really aproblem to find buffs, not even at alt.
The only difficulty is to intercept them before they reach their target, which has a bit increased becaude the small maps we currently are playing on.

BTW, yesterday I happened to intercept a B-17 flight at 32-34k. Even in my P-47N, which rules up there, I had a really hard time to catch up and set up one attack


Agreed... My point [that I have been dancing around] is that with the current planeset getting mobbed by 262s and 163s in B-17s/24s/lancs at high altitude isn't a fair fight.

On the other hand when I'm in buffs at alt. I like nothing better than to see some hapless soul trying to claw for altitude at near stall speed on my 6.

I understand both sides of the argument my friend [he wrote sincerely] but wouldn't you agree that having a counter to the jets/rockets would be a good thing? Obviously upping B-29s would cost massive perks, on the same level (times 3 for a formation) of the 262/163, and have a reward (bomb load, speed and ceiling) for risking so many perkies. The only currently perked buff ride [AR 234] offers only speed and ceiling without a bombload to do more than harass. I think this is a good argument for the introduction of the Superfortress.
X.O. False Prophets
Altitude is Life
If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2007, 04:17:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
Agreed... My point [that I have been dancing around] is that with the current planeset getting mobbed by 262s and 163s in B-17s/24s/lancs at high altitude isn't a fair fight.


Yea because those 262s and 163s are just everywhere. :rolleyes:
Spewing hyperbole doesn't help make your points. What it does do is ruin your credibility.
See Rule #4

Offline Murdr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5608
      • http://479th.jasminemaire.com
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #147 on: October 30, 2007, 06:34:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
As I said above if you don't like the subject, you don't have to read and respond the thread. It IS a simple concept!
:confused: Wow.  I didn't notice that during my 3000 previous posts.

Offline Stoney74

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #148 on: October 30, 2007, 09:30:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
The Norden bombsite had compensation for windage incorperated...


Click here for an in-depth look at the Norden and its operation.  As you can see, it was an extremely complicated piece of kit, and one that is steeped in as much folklore as the P-51D, for example, with respect to its actual contribution to the air war over Europe.  The Norden didn't compensate for wind automatically.  Rather, it was the human input into the device that allowed the assembled mass of slide rules and manual computational devices to give the bombardier a chance to hit a point target on the ground.  Human input that had to be made in a huge formation, over a heavily defended target, in swarms of fighters, and sometimes poor weather.  Furthermore, the autopilot that was slaved to the sight was a pure one axis autopilot.  The Norden required groundspeed to be put in (by the bombardier through the sight) and the pilot was required to maintain this speed and altitude throughout the run, again in a massive, turbulent formation, over a heavily defended target, (you get the idea).  While in training in the states, B-17 crews were capable of hitting within a very tight tolerance against a point target at altitudes in the range of 12,000 feet (source is "Tail End Charlies").  In combat, having 30% of the bombs dropped within a fairly broad tolerance of the aimpoint was considered a successful mission, even though the target may have only sustained meager damage requiring follow-on missions.  Obviously the USAAF was much more realistic about the limitations of the Norden in combat.  There is much thought among historians that the massive amounts of propaganda distributed about the "top secret" Norden bombsite was an attempt to prove that "precision" bombing was being conducted by the USAAF and not the "terrorism" used by the Germans at Guernica or during the Battle of Britain, or the bombing raids of Nanking by the Japanese that were so loudly trumpeted by the U.S. Press when drawing favorable comparisons between Allied and Axis bomber tactics.

I don't mean to have this sound combative or condescending, but don't even think that the calibration that we have even brushes the surface of what it took in real life to operate the Norden effectively.  Its merely a representation used by HTC to give us enough of a taste to replicate the WWII experience, much like the "dumbed down" cockpit tasks of all the aircraft, fighters and bombers, in the game.  

I flew a lot of high-altitude bomber missions in this game when I first started, because learning how to fly fighters well was an exercise in frustration.  And, I can tell you that hitting a strat well from 28,000 feet is pretty simple if you have the patience to do so.  On most maps, there are plenty of strats to hit that don't present easy access to 163's or 262's--choose wisely.  Its one thing to go after a HQ and something entirely different to go after a fuel refinery.

Furthermore, the bomber guys have been stockpiling bomber perks for as long as they've been playing, so at least for a few weeks or so, B-29's would be relatively cheap.

Regardless, the B-29 should be added, albeit after at least another dozen more applicable aircraft are added.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 09:34:26 PM by Stoney74 »

Offline Mr No Name

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1835
B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2007, 01:17:27 AM »
I couldnt agree with your post more stoney.  I dont believe the perk should be all that high because the speed/armament isnt spectacular enough to earn it a 262 type perk.  The lancaster carries a 14K load (Yes, I know 20K is a LOT more) but it has amazing speed at very high alt, in fact you can simply outclimb most fighters outright.

I look at the B-29 as a HUGE target... It might even make high altitude fights between fighters happen more often because if you have lets say 150 to 200 perks riding on your formation, you are gonna want to fly upstairs, way upstairs...  At 15K or below, this thing would be canonfodder... Its big and it will have that "PLEASE KILL MY PERKPLANE" icon above it.

I would love to have bombing outside of the F6 view disabled for heavy bombers that did not have a divebomber role (The Ju-88s, for example, dove)

I also feel that the gunners should have to deal with muzzle jump and that the convergence or aim of all guns on one target should be a bit looser.  By that I mean that you should not be faced with a laserlike 18 x .50 caliber buzzsaw at 1.5K out from the buffs.
Vote R.E. Lee '24