B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
What the Germans did build, bomber-wise, they built pretty good. They designed some very good 2 engined bombers. I'd love to see the HE-111, both the bomber and the transport, in AH...The B-29 operated against the Japanese for more then a year and flew many, many missions. Some of which were more destructive then either the A-bomb attacks. I believe the B-29 changed the face of air warfare more then any other aircraft in WW-ll...Most players in this game are sitting on lots of unused bomber perks. The B-29 would be a terrific perk for everyone.

He-111 was obsolescing before the war even began.  The Ju-88, on the other hand, was an excellent multi-role aircraft that proved to be useful the entire war, so yes you have a point there.  I was referring to the fact, that you intimated, that the U.S. industrial might was able to act unhindered by any outside influence.

I agree that the B-29 flew some missions that were more destructive than the 2 atomic bombs--however, the B-24 dropped more tonnage and was built in greater numbers than the B-17, and yet, the B-17 is the iconic U.S. bomber of the ETO.  Hence, had the B-29 not dropped the atomic bombs, it would have merely been a footnote in WWII USAAF history.

Most players are sitting on a nice reserve of bomber perks, but that's not justification for the B-29 over all of the other aircraft missing from the planeset.  I'd rather spend bomber perks on A-26's or Fast Mosquitos than the B-29.  Ultimately, I think HTC may be worried about its unstabilizing capability in the MA that makes them hesitant (if they are indeed) about introducing it.  There have been half a million other B-29 threads that basically spell out the same.

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by Stoney74
He-111 was obsolescing before the war even began.  The Ju-88, on the other hand, was an excellent multi-role aircraft that proved to be useful the entire war, so yes you have a point there.  I was referring to the fact, that you intimated, that the U.S. industrial might was able to act unhindered by any outside influence.

I agree that the B-29 flew some missions that were more destructive than the 2 atomic bombs--however, the B-24 dropped more tonnage and was built in greater numbers than the B-17, and yet, the B-17 is the iconic U.S. bomber of the ETO.  Hence, had the B-29 not dropped the atomic bombs, it would have merely been a footnote in WWII USAAF history.

Most players are sitting on a nice reserve of bomber perks, but that's not justification for the B-29 over all of the other aircraft missing from the planeset.  I'd rather spend bomber perks on A-26's or Fast Mosquitos than the B-29.  Ultimately, I think HTC may be worried about its unstabilizing capability in the MA that makes them hesitant (if they are indeed) about introducing it.  There have been half a million other B-29 threads that basically spell out the same.

Why not all the above? No problem here!
B-29 wouldn't have been a footnote without the Atomic bombs. It was the most advanced bomber developed during the war by any side.
If all pilots have access to an airplane how could that be destabilizing?
If you want to spend your perks on an A-26 or another low level type... fine it's all good, but I would like to see another perk  hi alt bomber and there was none better than the B-29.

Why read the thread if you're sick of B-29 threads?

The very fact that this wasn't the first and will not be the last should indicate that there is some interest and demand within the community!:rofl

[VansCrew1]

Originally posted by Denholm
[size=10]NO![/size]

Get the German, Japanese, Italian, and British bomber plane set up before we go hailing the Americans again.

yep.

B29 why,need more AXis and british plane's to many american fighters and bombers.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by MajIssue
Why read the thread if you're sick of B-29 threads?

The very fact that this wasn't the first and will not be the last should indicate that there is some interest and demand within the community!:rofl

Didn't say I was tired of B-29 threads--merely mentioning that this issue has been discussed more than any other wish-list thread.

Obviously, there is a demand, and as I stated in my previous post, I believe the B-29 has a place in AHII merely because it was an aircraft that participated in WWII.  

My point, was that there are many other aircraft that I believe should be added before the B-29.  Perhaps I didn't state that plainly enough.  During the time it takes for the B-29 to move to the top of HTC's priority list, perhaps they can figure out a way to keep it from becoming a destabilizing influence in the MA (which it certainly has the potential to become due to the fact that it carries 3 times the ordnance of the Lanc at almost twice the speed at altitude--262 type perks would certainly be a minimum perk level).

Just my opinion, and not worth more than any other

[Murdr]

See if you guys would read the help files, you would know that the B-29 has been on HTCs radar.  Therefore saving posting space for the next "original idea" that we've been seeing for years

A portion of this quote from the bbs is directly copied into the perk points portion of the help files.

Originally posted by Pyro on 11-30-2000

The perk system is also in place. We don't have any perk planes going into 1.05, but we'll still have the system up and ready. It's been awhile since we've discussed the perk system so I'll describe the basics of it again. On the outside the perk system is a way for us to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that. Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc. These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis. So there won't be unlimited availability but they'll be available as bonuses or perks every so often.

I think if they had decided to never model the B-29, they would have removed the reference from the help files.  So it is a matter of priority.  No community feedback is going to move the B-29 up the list of priorities.  Whatever arguments one would like to present as to why this should be a priority has already been stated a hundred times.

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by Stoney74
Didn't say I was tired of B-29 threads--merely mentioning that this issue has been discussed more than any other wish-list thread.

Obviously, there is a demand, and as I stated in my previous post, I believe the B-29 has a place in AHII merely because it was an aircraft that participated in WWII.  

My point, was that there are many other aircraft that I believe should be added before the B-29.  Perhaps I didn't state that plainly enough.  During the time it takes for the B-29 to move to the top of HTC's priority list, perhaps they can figure out a way to keep it from becoming a destabilizing influence in the MA (which it certainly has the potential to become due to the fact that it carries 3 times the ordnance of the Lanc at almost twice the speed at altitude--262 type perks would certainly be a minimum perk level).

Just my opinion, and not worth more than any other

Thank you for the clarification and I agree... There are alot of aircraft that were sigbificant in WW2 that we don't see in AH2. (Other that the Superfort) I would like to see the P-39 anh HE-111 among others. I alologise if I've been "beating a dead horse" , but this thread won't go away... I started it over two weeks ago and it's still on the first page of the list...

On to the other part of my original post: I've been thinking that (after reading some opinions on this board that maybe my luftwaffe '46 idea might have merit... What about a "what if" arena where the aircraft in development at the end of the war could see action. Some guys have suggested a special "elite" arena this idea could be it. Maybe a perk fee of say 100 perkies to get in... just a thought:aok

[texasmom]

Originally posted by Denholm
We all know that HTC knows we want it, yet new forum members do not know that HTC knows.

Yeah, but how do you know that they know, but we don't know?

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by VansCrew1
yep.

B29 why,need more AXis and british plane's to many american fighters and bombers.

This should put an end to the argument that there are "too many American" aircraft in AH2:

By my count (source http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/index.html)

considering every ride available Air/Land/Sea

US - 34

NON US - 53

Thats about a 3-2 advantage (give or take)

It is notable that the US supplied Mustangs, Liberators, Fortresses, Dakotas and Shermans to the British (among other types),  Aircobras and Dakotas to the Soviets (among other types). Why did the US dominate aircraft production you ask? Simple... nobody was bombing US production facilities.

You could point out that the German production of 109s and 190s was huge during 1943-44 but that level of production (aircraft AND pilots) couldn't be sustained in the face of the US/British stratigic bombing offensive. In the end the reason there were so many US made aircraft of so many types is that the US mainland was never attacked and every other combatants home country was.

[Hien]

Originally posted by MajIssue
This should put an end to the argument that there are "too many American" aircraft in AH2:

By my count (source http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/index.html)

considering every ride available Air/Land/Sea

US - 34

NON US - 53

Thats about a 3-2 advantage (give or take)

It is notable that the US supplied Mustangs, Liberators, Fortresses, Dakotas and Shermans to the British (among other types),  Aircobras and Dakotas to the Soviets (among other types). Why did the US dominate aircraft production you ask? Simple... nobody was bombing US production facilities.

You could point out that the German production of 109s and 190s was huge during 1943-44 but that level of production (aircraft AND pilots) couldn't be sustained in the face of the US/British stratigic bombing offensive. In the end the reason there were so many US made aircraft of so many types is that the US mainland was never attacked and every other combatants home country was.

On the numbers, frankly.  I would hope that 5 other countries would outnumber the US.

VVS, IJN/A, LW, and RAF. Italy (?)   VS.    USA

I would hope on my boxers that the US is outnumbered.  ._.
But the fact that it's as close as it it just proves that we need other countries aircraft.    I would love to see each side be even, to some extent.

MiG-3s, LaGG-3s, Yak-XX*s, British bombers, and fighters.   IJN/A fighters, and bombers.  LW bombers (if not so much fighters, since from what I've seen... the 190/109 were... really all they had.  I'm probably wrong though, I would hope so. )
*insert random letters and numbers!  It probably exists!

All of them should be on the list to.  I say equal the planesets out.   Make all the countries equal in numbers.  Even if that means adding a few useless aircraft into the planeset.  I mean, really, even if it was a hangar queen that doesn't mean it never gets used.  Almost all aircraft - fighter or bomber - have fans.  

Some are rabid, like myself.  I would choke my best friend for a SB-2.  (And he would probably understand my want of it. )  Some are not so rabid, and just simply want it.  I fly fighters, pretty much only fighters.  I would learn to buff if we got an SB-2.  And I would fly it constantly.  But my Yak/D3A would still get used from time to time, cause I love them both too.

But I go off subject...

Yeah, I think we should equalize planesets.  And in doing that, we should hold off on the US aircraft for a while.  Simply because they're so far ahead.
You say the US Planeset has 34 aircraft?

VVS - 5 (La-7, La-5, Yak-9U, Yak-9T, and IL-2, this is not counting lend-lease stuff)

LW -  16 (109F, 109E, 109G (3 versions?) 109K, 190 (4 versions), Ju-87, Ju-88, Me-262, 163, Ar-234)

Raf -  11 (Spit 1, 5, 9, 14, 16 (I think that's all of them...) Hurr 1, D, and C.  Boston? (Eh, not sure, all of these are off the top of my head), Lanc, Mossie)

IJN/A -  7 (A6M2, A6M5, N1K, Ki-84, that two engine bomber I can't remember the name of, D3A, B5N)

Italy (I think the C.205 is Italian... Um... Ravioli?) - 2 (C.205/2)

(Remember, I'm going off the top of my head here... I don't remember most of the aircraft we have, just the things I see alot... Or remember from IL-2)

Things I think we need before a B-29?

VVS - Yak-1B/1/7/something early warish, Yak-3, LaGG-3 and 3T, MiG-3, and 3U (bis, whatever), I-16 Mosca, I-153, Pe-2, Tu-2, Sb-2/Ar-2/Db-3, and even though it was pretty much just a transport - the Pe-8.

LW - He-111, Other Ju-87 variants (Including the big Cannon one, that would be fun), and that's really all I can think of for the LW...

RAF - (I don't know many of thier names, but I know they had bombers that weren't US made... I think.)... Gladiator?  Swordfish maybe?  Defiant maybe...?  Give Gunners a purpose...  

IJA/N - A6M5, J6M2/5, G4M Betty,  (I might look up more, I know they exist, just not thier designations...)

Italy...? - ... Um...  G.50?  Was that from Italy...?  I really... don't know most of thier aircraft... at all... I'm gonna... go... find that out now...  That's of course me guessing the C.20Xs are... Italian.  I am not sure.


Ignoring my inability to find the names of aircraft.  The US Planeset is huge, and it was big during WW2 as well.  But.  I believe we should even all of them out as much as possible.  The B-29 was a great bomber.  But this isn't a great war, where we need a HUGE bombload and great survivablity.  This is a game, where Fun and Balance are both much more important than Ords on target, and survivablity.  And to me, the US Planeset is not balanced next to the others, atleast in raw numbers.

[Capt.Joe]

Originally posted by MjTalon
 hereeeeeee we goooooooo

Yup...This button could make EVERYONES life easier!!

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by Hien
On the numbers, frankly.  I would hope that 5 other countries would outnumber the US.

VVS, IJN/A, LW, and RAF. Italy (?)   VS.    USA

I would hope on my boxers that the US is outnumbered.  ._.
But the fact that it's as close as it it just proves that we need other countries aircraft.    I would love to see each side be even, to some extent.

...
  The B-29 was a great bomber.  But this isn't a great war, where we need a HUGE bombload and great survivablity.  This is a game, where Fun and Balance are both much more important than Ords on target, and survivablity.  And to me, the US Planeset is not balanced next to the others, atleast in raw numbers.

Close... I think not. History is what it is and the US produced more aircraft than all others (combined I believe), hense the "imbalance". Why have  hanger queens in the game at all? Someones love of the Brewster Buffalo (for example) doesn't justify it being in the AH2 plane set. Maybe it could be a way for the veteran pilots to pad their scores when newbies up HE-111s. or MiG-3s

If you had more stick time in buffs you would know what imbalance REALLY is! Try bombing (even at 25K+) a target within ME-262 or 163 range in ANY of the current heavies. In lancs it is a joke. you would do as well throwing marbles at a 262 as shooting at them with  the .303s.  There is also the issue of the limited ammount of bullits in the defensive guns of lancs . It seems like about 30 each! Even B-17s/24s with all of their M-2s are no match for a swarm of jet/rocket propelled aircraft! Even in large formations The advanced German aircraft will cut through  bombers like a hot knife through butter.

Also why would you hope that the US was outnumbered? As a US Army vet it was my firm belief that if you went into a war and it was a fair fight you shouldn't be there! But, I digress

[Lusche]

Originally posted by MajIssue


If you had more stick time in buffs you would know what imbalance REALLY is! Try bombing (even at 25K+) a target within ME-262 or 163 range in ANY of the current heavies.  

Fact is, the overwhelming majority of bombing missions do never get near any 163 base. Also the amount of 262 you encounter is usually quite low.
Bombing at 25k is easy with our current bombsight and opposition is usually negligible, unless you are part of a very big bombing raid.
Yesterday I was bombing rook strats 4 sectors deep in enemy territory at 25k. During US prime time. Completely unmolested. On my way back one single fighter took of, but apparently figured it's not worth the time to climb that high.

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by Lusche
Fact is, the overwhelming majority of bombing missions do never get near any 163 base. Also the amount of 262 you encounter is usually quite low.
Bombing at 25k is easy with our current bombsight and opposition is usually negligible, unless you are part of a very big bombing raid.
Yesterday I was bombing rook strats 4 sectors deep in enemy territory at 25k. During US prime time. Completely unmolested. On my way back one single fighter took of, but apparently figured it's not worth the time to climb that high.

I disagree that bombing is easy at 25K.It is much more difficult to calibrate at that alt. I AM surprised that the rooks didn't up to stop you an strat. tgts... They seem more willing to come up to intercept Hi alt. buffs than the knights! Just for laughs make their HQs blink and watch ho long it takes to see 163s and 262s! one day in September a squaddie and I flew ponys noe to get the rook HQ to blink as a diversion to take pressure off their main effort attack. We landed just out of ack range and within 5 minutes there were 5+ 262s overhead looking for our phantom buffs... lmao:rofl

[Lusche]

Originally posted by MajIssue
I disagree that bombing is easy at 25K.It is much more difficult to calibrate at that alt.

Calibration routine is not affected by altitude in any way. Stable speed & alt, hit U then hold down Y for 10 seconds. Perfect calibration, regardless if your are at 10k or 30k.

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Lusche
Fact is, the overwhelming majority of bombing missions do never get near any 163 base. Also the amount of 262 you encounter is usually quite low.
Bombing at 25k is easy with our current bombsight and opposition is usually negligible, unless you are part of a very big bombing raid.
Yesterday I was bombing rook strats 4 sectors deep in enemy territory at 25k. During US prime time. Completely unmolested. On my way back one single fighter took of, but apparently figured it's not worth the time to climb that high.

                        That was you? I saw you way up in the stratosphere but unless you were going to turn east I didn't think we had any strats in that corner. B-17s right? I called it out but apparently nobody intercepted. I was N/B in 26s looking for a CV.

                       The night before I pounded the Knight city twice and nobody bothered to come. Kinda disappointing.