Author Topic: Al Qaeda lost  (Read 3809 times)

Offline Viking

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« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2007, 09:53:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
So your saying Saddam was innocent? Tell that to the people that he gased.


Quote
Originally posted by Tango
So your saying there were no Kurds gased by Saddam? Next your going to say there was no Holocaust.


Quote
Originally posted by Tango
How important was the Jewish plight for you?

I guess not much.



Since you are obviously drawing parallels between the gassing of the Kurdish villagers and the Holocaust I must ask: What do you actually know about the "gassing of the Kurds"? To me it sounds like you know very little indeed. To even mention the incident in the same context as the Holocaust is an insult to the victims of the Nazis and to the Jewish people as a whole. At the time, the gassing of the Kurds wasn't even illegal.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2007, 11:44:43 AM »
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Originally posted by Viking
At the time, the gassing of the Kurds wasn't even illegal.


:huh

Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2007, 11:58:59 AM »
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At the time, the gassing of the Kurds wasn't even illegal.



Does that make it less reprehensible?

Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2007, 12:29:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dadano
What the hell is so bad about invading/occupying a country for their resources? We did indeed elect a couple of energy tycoons, what did we expect.

We're simply sustaining our way of life. Good or bad, we're paying the bills. Real simple stuff.

In this light, our occupation of Iraq is totally justified. Saddam was a threat to our way of life (google "saddam euro to dollar" "cheney energy task force"...) and everything is as it ought to be; normal.

saddam uero to dollar first site, this was written before the war:

"It is plausible that the aftermath of the Iraq war and a U.S. occupation of Iraq could increase Al-Qaeda sponsored terrorism against U.S. targets, or more likely create guerilla warfare in a post-war Iraq."

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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2007, 12:38:11 PM »
blah blah blah - another thread with the same players on the same sides ...

if you don't think we should be in Iraq, wait until the dems pull out us if/when they win in 08 - you'll be electing the candidate in 2012 who is running on the platform that will put us back in Iraq at 10x the cost and you won't blink an eye about it...
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2007, 02:51:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soviet
I'm not a democrat so i'm not being "Brainwashed" From the Democratic party.  Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction?  Where are they?  We went to WAR over that and they weren't there.  We were lied to, I can't see how it could be any more clear.


In addition to WMD's, there were some other reasons in the joint resolution of congress.

Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire, including interference with weapons inspectors.  

Iraq's brutal repression of its civilian population.

Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.

Members of al-Qaeda were known to be in Iraq.

Iraq continuing to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including anti-United States terrorist organizations.

The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.

Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, (signed by Clinton) the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.

A lie is a deliberate statement intended to mislead the listener.  One can be wrong without deliberatly trying to offer false information.
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2007, 03:01:58 PM »
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Originally posted by Dago
Whenever there is any good news out of Iraq, I can imagine MT with his hands over his ears saying "lalalalalalalalalal" over and over.


I know you daydream about me Dago... just remember to clean up when you're done.

Offline bongaroo

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« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2007, 03:15:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK

Misleading the public about WMDs?
Ahhh another sound bite directly from then DNC.
Congratulations. Your brainwashing is just about complete.
Astounding how easily its proved that if you lay out a line of bull watermelon long enough people will start to believe it.
Must be the short memory span of the American public
 


See now this bugs me just a little bit because to me it sounds like you've been brainwashed to spew the same rhetoric that the Republicans push everyone with.  Contributing to the discussion intelligently would have you engaging what he said with facts, not attacking the person as dumb and brainwashed.

Are you sure you haven't been brainwashed?  Starting to believe the long line of bull that Bush has been laying for 8 years?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 03:18:16 PM by bongaroo »
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Offline bongaroo

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« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2007, 03:24:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
In addition to WMD's, there were some other reasons in the joint resolution of congress.

Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire, including interference with weapons inspectors.  

Iraq's brutal repression of its civilian population.

Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.

Members of al-Qaeda were known to be in Iraq.

Iraq continuing to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including anti-United States terrorist organizations.

The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.

Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, (signed by Clinton) the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.

A lie is a deliberate statement intended to mislead the listener.  One can be wrong without deliberatly trying to offer false information.


Iraq's support of Al-Qaeda was miniscule compared to the support they recieved from parts of Saudia Arabia, one of our "allies".  

This argument for invading Iraq became real popular after WMD's obviously were not to be found.

How come we aren't invading Burma to help the people fight its brutal government?

How come we aren't invading parts of Africa to keep warlords from recruiting 12 year old soldiers?

etc. etc. etc.  Why aren't we doing something about all the other dictators?  cause America likes dictators that play ball and like us, hell we've put them in power in plenty of places (Pakistan anyone?).  We don't like ones that don't do what we tell em to.

I think Iraq got invaded because Jr. wanted to invade from day 1 and terrorism gave a good excuse (also I personally think he thought he could finish what his daddy didn't; guess he shoulda read his dad's book with its clear message of no exit strategy to get out of Iraq, whoops!).  We should have kept the pressure up in Afghanistan instead of giving these crazies another playground.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 03:28:24 PM by bongaroo »
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Offline Dadano

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« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2007, 03:26:21 PM »
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Members of al-Qaeda were known to be in Iraq...
Iraq continuing to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including anti-United States terrorist organizations.

(Citation needed)
Quote
Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, (signed by Clinton) the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.

Key word "promote". This resolution speaks clearly against any kind of invasion or occupation. ( H.R. 4655 )

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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2007, 03:28:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bongaroo
This argument for invading Iraq became real popular after WMD's obviously were not to be found.

How come we aren't invading Burma to help the people fight its brutal government?

How come we aren't invading parts of Africa to keep warlords from recruiting 12 year old soldiers?

etc. etc. etc.

I think Iraq got invaded because Jr. wanted to invade from day 1 and terrorism gave a good excuse (also I personally think he thought he could finish what his daddy didn't; guess he shoulda read his dad's book with its clear message of no exit strategy to get out of Iraq, whoops!).  We should have kept the pressure up in Afghanistan instead of giving these crazies another playground.


Funny. I remember making alot of those same arguements BEFORE we went into Iraq.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2007, 03:33:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dadano
(Citation needed)

Key word "promote". This resolution speaks clearly against any kind of invasion or occupation. ( H.R. 4655 )



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, (signed by Clinton) the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.

No. Key words are "Policy of the US" and "Remove."

Gotta remove the regime before you  can promote a democratic replacement.
And you cant to that by passing silly resolutions no matter what the UN might try to tell you :p

How you read what your reading into it nis beyond my understanding
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Offline bongaroo

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« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2007, 03:34:43 PM »
wait, which arguments?  just need some clarification to understand what your saying.

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Offline Charon

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« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2007, 04:01:00 PM »
Woodwards book covers the WMD point in some detail. First, the search component was an afterthought that was poorly funded. Still, the resource list given to the first team raised a lot of questions. Most of the information predate the 1991 Gulf War.

Well, after not finding any WMDs, and with pressure starting to mount, a second effort was launched. This involved a new team with a pure intelligence approach to the problem. Unfortunately, in spite of significant cash rewards and the offer of green cards they could not find a single scientist, stockpile guard or other person involved with such a program post 1991. No truck drivers, janitors, scientists, military liaisons -- nada. This in spite of numerous efforts to fraudulently cash in on the offers. There was a recording of one scientists wife begging her husband to make something up, anything, to get the reward and green card. The conclusion arrived at was that Saddam didn't relaunch his WMD programs.

The nuclear program that had been far more advanced than thought pre 1991 was not worth mentioning. Gulf War I completely dismantled that. Chemical and biological programs were not in place formally, and the best that could be offered was that he was in a position to restart them if needed, at some point. But, no programs in place, no modern weapon stockplies, etc.

Funny story on the aluminum tubes. It seems that a friend of Uday had the contract to develop some rocket artillery propellant. Unfortunately, the quality was poor. But, this was a friend of Uday. So, the solution was to find hitech aluminum tubes (stronger and lighter) to meet performance requirements with poorer propellant. An expensive solution, but the only solution available in Saddam's time.

Why not allow inspections? The theory was quite simple. 1. Saddam didn't feel the US would go through with it. 2. The fear of the weapons made him stronger regionally after 1991 than he would have been otherwise (and at home with the Kurds, etc.). 3. Backing down on inspections would be a personal sign of weakness for whatever Saddam II was waiting in the wings, and was less of a personal risk that a US invasion.

Charon

Offline Tango

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« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2007, 04:22:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
Not especially. It happened before I was born and I don't personally know any holocaust survivors so it's not much to me besides an historic point of interest.


Unlike you I don't want events like that to happen again if we can prevent them. Sounds like you would be more like those German citizens that looked the other way while the Holocaust was happening.
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