Author Topic: October 4th 1957  (Read 1737 times)

Offline Thrawn

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2007, 08:31:48 PM »
I would wish the Soviet Union a well deserved "Happy Birthday!!" on this the anniversary of a truly momentous occasion in human history...but, you know...

Offline Angus

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2007, 03:59:58 AM »
Sputnik was there first. The first mammal was launched by the USSR as well. Then the first astronaut. Okay.
But the lead of the USSR was maybe better shown with the incredible Luna missions, - the back side of the moon, the first moon material retrival etc.
Sure the USA caught up and took the lead, but Sputnik was still a big step.
So happy anneversary Sputnik!
BTW, the Japanese have just launched a sattelite into moon orbit.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Estel

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2007, 04:28:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
interesting to wonder how much the russians and the US could have accomplished and sooner if they had worked together instead f fighting the cold war

But If it hadnt have been for the cold war neither side would have probably accomplished anything at all


Hmmm. Interesting question. If to imagine, that we worked together..... I don't think, that Sputnik would be launched sooner. It's because of the concurence. That time, when USA got Verner fon Braun, USSR was forced to use Korolev's methods. And Sputnik was fully his idea. Like R-7. And if both sides would be based on fon Braun's technology, this could make the whole work if not fully fatal, but very slow. For now, we know that some of fon Braun's technologies, inherited from V-1 and V-2 projects were wrong. But that time, nobody knows about it. So Korolev was free of that errors and possibility of clean and succesful launch was raised in times.

Offline Viking

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2007, 04:41:37 AM »
The greatest lead in space technology the Russians made was that of robotic spacecraft. While NASA was striving to surpass the embarrassing lead the Russians had in manned space fight the Russians had correctly predicted the the future of space exploration will be dominated by robotic space craft. Thus the Russians were the first to land on the Moon and retrieve lunar materials ... not with manned space craft, but with robotic space craft.

Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2007, 04:48:15 AM »
Congrats Russia, that must have been very exciting times.

Offline lazs2

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2007, 08:27:48 AM »
no doubt... their nazis were better than our nazis for quite a while.   They treated their worse tho.

lazs

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2007, 01:08:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
no doubt... their nazis were better than our nazis for quite a while.   They treated their worse tho.


You are a master of generalization. If American engineers failed and had to turn to military criminals as chief designers - it doesn't mean that other nations did so.

R-7 was indeed a successor of German missiles, but it took Korolyov's genius to combine German rocket engine technology of the 40s, American "stressed shell" technology of the 30s and railway automation from the 20s. R-7 variants are still the cheapest and most reliable mass-produced launch vehicles.

Korolyov indeed persuaded the military to use R-7 as a satellite launcher, and he developed a super-heavy ICBM having space flight in mind. He really made a useless ICBM (launch preparation - 24 hours, launched from a table, only like half-dozen launch positions built in Baikonur, Kap. Yar and then Plesetsk), but a great launch vehicle. Compare it to American Redstone missiles used before Atlas became operational, they look like pencils :)

What amazes me is that he had enough imagination to even think of artificial satellite as of a possible and necessary thing. And could persuade the military to spend precious missiles for "useless toys". Khruschev said that we make missiles on conveyor "like sausages", but it was just a giant bluff.

IMHO if a first satellite was launched by the US - it could never draw so much attention and maybe just became another useless toy made for the International Geophysical Year. Suddenly Evil Russians made something so technologically advanced that couldn't be beaten by the so-called "free world". Without Cold War the Space Race was impossible. A pure example of how propaganda drives real politics and engineering, and it was good! ;)

Offline 1K3

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2007, 01:27:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
The greatest lead in space technology the Russians made was that of robotic spacecraft. While NASA was striving to surpass the embarrassing lead the Russians had in manned space fight the Russians had correctly predicted the the future of space exploration will be dominated by robotic space craft. Thus the Russians were the first to land on the Moon and retrieve lunar materials ... not with manned space craft, but with robotic space craft.



lol, they forgot to plant a flag there...

Offline john9001

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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2007, 01:40:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda

Suddenly Evil Russians made something so technologically advanced that couldn't be beaten by the so-called "free world".



beep beep beep. :lol

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2007, 01:52:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
lol, they forgot to plant a flag there...


Soviet flag was on the Moon 10 years before "the Eagle has landed".

With all possible respect to Apollo crews, the whole effort and ingenuity of American engineers - you have to admit that it was a giant adventure, and it's pure luck that it killed only three astronauts. Apollo crews were the real heroes.

There was an opportunity to reach the Moon using Proton launcher, but it wasn't reliable enough for manned flight by Soviet standards. Cosmonauts including Leonov and Gagarin wrote a petition to Politburo saying they want to try even if there's only a 1/10th chance of survival, but "Evil Soviet Regime" (tm) refused.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2007, 02:12:26 PM »
boroda, how many Cosmonauts died in your space program, can you tell us or is it still a state secret?

Offline Holden McGroin

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2007, 02:20:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Soviet flag was on the Moon 10 years before "the Eagle has landed".


The first soft landing on the Moon was Jan. 31, 1966 Luna-9.

July 20, 1969 - Jan 31 1966 < 10 years... more like 3

Of course  Luna-2 impacted the moon on Sept. 12, 1959 but can you really say an impact at 2670 m/s is planting a flag, since they were metal pennants, not flags, and I doubt they are in pristine condition once the dust settled some 145 km distant.
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Offline moot

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2007, 03:21:20 AM »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline MiloMorai

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2007, 04:19:55 AM »
The Soviet program suffered various incidents and set-backs.

The Soviet space program was tied to the central planning of the USSR's five year plans. This made it difficult for the Chief Designers to respond in 1961 to the US launching a crash program for a manned lunar landing as the next five year plan would not start until 1964. Centralised planning and the concentration on production targets also made it difficult for middle management and engineers to highlight defects in equipment leading to poor quality control.

The Soviet space program produced the first cosmonaut fatality on March 23, 1961 when Valentin Bondarenko died in a fire within a low pressure, high oxygen atmosphere.

The Voskhod program was cancelled after two manned flights due to the change of Soviet leadership and the near fatality of the second mission. Had the planned further flights gone ahead they could have given the Soviet space program further 'firsts' including a long duration flight of 20 days, a spacewalk by a woman and an untethered spacewalk.

The deaths of Korolyov, Komarov (in the Soyuz 1 crash) and Gagarin (on routine fighter jet mission) within two years of each other understandably made some negative impact on the Soviet program.

The Soviets continued striving for the first lunar mission with the huge N-1 rocket which exploded on each of four unmanned tests. The Americans won the race to land on the moon with Apollo 11 in July, 1969.

On April 5, 1975, the second stage of a Soyuz rocket carrying 2 cosmonauts to the Salyut 4 space station malfunctioned, resulting in the first manned launch abort. The cosmonauts were carried several thousand miles downrange and became worried that they would land in China, which the Soviet Union was then having difficult relations with. The capsule hit a mountain, sliding down a slope and almost slid off a cliff; fortunately the parachute lines snagged on trees and kept this from happening. As it was, the two suffered severe injuries and the commander, Lazerev, never flew again.

On March 18, 1980 a Vostok rocket exploded on its launch pad during a fueling operation killing 48 people.

In the summer of 1981 Kosmos-434, which had been launched in 1971, was about to re-enter. To allay fears that the spacecraft carried nuclear materials, a spokesperson from the USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs assured the Australian government on August 26, 1981 that the satellite was "an experimental lunar cabin". This was one of the first admissions by the Soviet Union that it had ever engaged in a manned lunar spaceflight program.[1]

In September 1983, a Soyuz rocket being launched to carry cosmonauts to the Salyut 7 space station exploded on the pad, causing the Soyuz capsule's abort system to engage, saving the two cosmonauts on board.

The Soviet space program produced the Space Shuttle Buran based on the Energia launcher. Energia would be used as the base for a manned Mars mission. Buran was intended to operate in support of large space based military platforms as a response first to the US Space Shuttle and then the Strategic Defense Initiative. By the time the system was operational, in 1988, strategic arms reduction treaties and the end of the Cold War made Buran redundant. Several vehicles were built, but only one flew an unmanned test flight; it was found too expensive to operate as a civilian launcher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program

Offline Angus

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October 4th 1957
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2007, 04:34:29 AM »
Since they got that far while being hampered by their system, - it only emphasizes the brilliancy of their achivements IMHO.
And the Luna projects, being able to retrive moon material to the earth in the 60's through RC/robotics is just stunning.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)