Welsh Joke

[Dichotomy]

Originally posted by Neubob
Yes, I am in a rage.

I am outraged. And I don't understand how anybody today can be anything but outraged. We are allowing a backward, oppressive, barbaric culture to dictate the terms in what has become nothing less than a global war of ideology.

If there is any doubt in your mind that they want our submission, you are deluded. If you there is any doubt in your mind that their hatred and willingness to take this to the end will ever be satiated by anything less than total surrender, you are deluded.

And yet here we are, today, appeasing them, negotiating them into a situation that is ultimately compromising towards us. Forget the Jewish struggle. forget the Arab/Israeli conflict. This has spilled over into a battle of progress verses regress. A conflict between religious oppression and freedom of existence.

And you think there's a way to deal with this other than all out conflict? I'm sorry Dowding, but the route of political correctness is both old and impotent. This will never end until we show them the will that they've already shown us. If this belief makes me a bigot, than so be it. I'd still rather all of them die before anybody that is dear to me. Thanks to their resolve, we are past the point of humanity.

I sincerely apologize if I offended you with pre-conceived notions and primitive insults, but this is it, my view distilled into one post. Us or them. If you think that there's a happy medium, just as one of their religious leaders, and ask him to be sincere.

I, for one, will not be converting to Islam. And, I suspect, neither will you... Now how does that sit with their own sickening version of manifest destiny?

99.9% of the time I will not join in a political or religious argument but I absolutely have to 2nd this one.

[Arlo]

Replace the word "culture" with "subculture" and I might be inclined as well. If you're gonna be enraged enough to kill someone make sure it's the one's that are the problem .... not the ones that make you part of it. It's the reason smart bombs were invented to begin with.

If you're gonna be enraged at an entire culture because of the actions of a few or a group within it then you're just justifying the attitudes of the terrorists by mimicking it and all you really need to do is take that one extra step and fly an airliner into the largest clump of population you can find in a city in Saudi Arbia to finish the transformation and be completely indistinguishable. Hello rebirth of the crusades.

[Dichotomy]

Well that'd be great and all if all of their combatants wore a uniform and didn't try to blend in with the civilians.  Can you perhaps talk them into that?   It would make the task of eliminating the threatening ones vs the non threatening ones so much easier.  If you can't and this country ever gets it's resolve up then I'm afraid there's going to be a bit of collateral damage and, while that is a tragedy on an epic scale, it's a tragedy I can live with.  

Unfortunately I don't think the United States and her allies will ever remain united long enough to do more than be in constant conflict with a continual erosion of my freedoms and sense of safety.

[storch]

Originally posted by Neubob
Yes, I am in a rage.

I am outraged. And I don't understand how anybody today can be anything but outraged. We are allowing a backward, oppressive, barbaric culture to dictate the terms in what has become nothing less than a global war of ideology.

If there is any doubt in your mind that they want our submission, you are deluded. If you there is any doubt in your mind that their hatred and willingness to take this to the end will ever be satiated by anything less than total surrender, you are deluded.

And yet here we are, today, appeasing them, negotiating them into a situation that is ultimately compromising towards us. Forget the Jewish struggle. forget the Arab/Israeli conflict. This has spilled over into a battle of progress verses regress. A conflict between religious oppression and freedom of existence.

And you think there's a way to deal with this other than all out conflict? I'm sorry Dowding, but the route of political correctness is both old and impotent. This will never end until we show them the will that they've already shown us. If this belief makes me a bigot, than so be it. I'd still rather all of them die before anybody that is dear to me. Thanks to their resolve, we are past the point of humanity.

I sincerely apologize if I offended you with pre-conceived notions and primitive insults, but this is it, my view distilled into one post. Us or them. If you think that there's a happy medium, just as one of their religious leaders, and ask him to be sincere.

I, for one, will not be converting to Islam. And, I suspect, neither will you... Now how does that sit with their own sickening version of manifest destiny?

I wouldn't be in a rage about it.  you are correct though it is a war of ideology and they are on the brink of total world domination.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Arlo
Replace the word "culture" with "subculture" and I might be inclined as well. If you're gonna be enraged enough to kill someone make sure it's the one's that are the problem .... not the ones that make you part of it. It's the reason smart bombs were invented to begin with.

If you're gonna be enraged at an entire culture because of the actions of a few or a group within it then you're just justifying the attitudes of the terrorists by mimicking it and all you really need to do is take that one extra step and fly an airliner into the largest clump of population you can find in a city in Saudi Arbia to finish the transformation and be completely indistinguishable. Hello rebirth of the crusades.

Fanatics don't exist without a solid base of moderates to keep them energized and vitalized.

For every fanatic, there's a family of moderates quietly supporting them, and they're all guilty of the same thing.

Support, passive or active, is still support.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Dichotomy
Well that'd be great and all if all of their combatants wore a uniform and didn't try to blend in with the civilians.  Can you perhaps talk them into that?   It would make the task of eliminating the threatening ones vs the non threatening ones so much easier.  

I'm sorry. Were you thinking right was always supposed to be easy?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Neubob
Fanatics don't exist without a solid base of moderates to keep them energized and vitalized.
 

Or without the breathing room everyone else being apathetic would create? Kinda like here?

[Dichotomy]

Originally posted by Arlo
I'm sorry. Were you thinking right was always supposed to be easy?

Nothing worth doing right is ever easy but I'm pretty sick and tired of having to be politically correct and digest every anti me thing I read without responding to it.  The fanatics and even some moderates have stated clearly that their goal is world domination.  That if you do not choose to convert to their religion then you are to be put to the sword.  They are killing people of their religion because they are of a different sect.  There is nothing short of full on, directly applied, violence and death to all of them that think this way that will stop them.  

They've already changed my way of life and in that they have won.  Do you think that for one second that the fact that there have been no attacks since 9/11 is an accident?

I think it's because A) some pretty good work that we don't know about and isn't our business and B) that the other side sees that public support for the war isn't growing and that attacking us would just galvanize the American people and other nations that believe in freedom.  

We are apathetic as a country and as a world civilization.  Hey so long as I get my starbucks in the morning and the Cowboys play on Sunday everything is peachy.

Every thing this country stands for is worth fighting for.  We are clumsy and we make mistakes but do not stand there and tell me that you are willing to convert to another religion or be forced to accept religion or be put to death.

If it comes down to death for all of us as imperfect as we are, as clumsy as we are, and as misguided our deeds are, or death to all of them even the innocent.  I choose the former over the latter.

THEY are forcing the US against THEM mentality.  

In case you're not aware this country is based on freedom of religion and even freedom from religion.  If you want to worship a tree.. hey rock on.  Just don't try to make it a government mandate that I have to do the same.

Here's an idea.. go take a look at the concentration camps in Nazi Germany.  Weren't there a bunch of people that were enslaved, tortured, and put to death, because of their religion?   Fanatics at the helm?  Absolutely.  Some good soldiers and airmen that died because their bosses told them to go forth in defense of the fatherland?  Yep... but they had to die so that the horror could not continue to propogate.

Frankly sir I'm not quite ready to get rounded up and put in a camp and marched into an oven.  Are you?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Dichotomy

Well that was pretty rhetorical. Anyhoo, how is my suggesting not letting your anger overrride rational thought and reasonable action "anti-you?"

[Dichotomy]

How about we just agree to disagree on this one sport?  Obviously we have differing points of view.  You will not move me off of mine and I'm not going to attempt to move you off of yours.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Dichotomy
How about we just agree to disagree on this one sport?  Obviously we have differing points of view.  You will not move me off of mine and I'm not going to attempt to move you off of yours.

I wasn't telling you not to be angry, Dich. I merely made a suggestion on what seemed like a reasonable way to deal with it. You don't like it. Don't do it. Agreed, sport.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Arlo
Or without the breathing room everyone else being apathetic would create? Kinda like here?

I don't think Americans are that apathetic.

Americans care about many things. For Christ's sake, they care about every pound that Britney gains. They care about every man that Paris Hilton dates, or pretends not to date. Americans care, and they care big...

The problem is that at some point, Americans were saturated with political correctness. They were taught that the enemy is really just a friend who needs to be re-taught, re-conditioned into a new style of thinking. "In every commie, there's an American waiting to get out", goes the immortal line.

Many Americans, some of whom post here, believe that you can't generalize. That you need to take very individual as the beautiful snowflake that they are (credit to Fight Club). And they'll teach their kids that, and if that generation survives, so will that notion...

Personally, I think it's a bunch of hogwash. Muslim ideology has drawn a very clear line in the sand. They want us to be at our knees, at their feet. They want your beliefs, christian, agnostic or atheist, to be abandoned for their own, and they're ready to do so by force of physical harm. If you want sources, just consult your local Islamist scholar.

And much to the chagrin of our local O Club liberals, I will generalize, and say that they are the enemy. Passive or active, moderate or fanatical, they are all nothing more than varying degrees of the same thing--your mortal enemy. They know this, but we, being the kind-hearted, politically-correct sheep that we are, will always give the benefit of the doubt, and buy into age old lie that Islam is "the religion of peace."

Bull****. They are the enemy and they want our heads either kneeling down, or on a platter. The moment that Apple-Pie America understands this, the moment that this nation's will is finally resolved into a single organ, is the moment that the tide turns.

Until then, we'll just be their marionettes... Playing a game that we cannot win, with an enemy that has no mercy.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Neubob
I don't think Americans are that apathetic.

Americans care about many things. For Christ's sake, they care about every pound that Britney gains. They care about every man that Paris Hilton dates, or pretends not to date. Americans care, and they care big...

The problem is that at some point, Americans were saturated with political correctness. They were taught that the enemy is really just a friend who needs to be re-taught, re-conditioned into a new style of thinking. "In every commie, there's an American waiting to get out", goes the immortal line.

Many Americans, some of whom post here, believe that you can't generalize. That you need to take very individual as the beautiful snowflake that they are (credit to Fight Club). And they'll teach their kids that, and if that generation survives, so will that notion...

Personally, I think it's a bunch of hogwash. Muslim ideology has drawn a very clear line in the sand. They want us to be at our knees, at their feet. They want your beliefs, christian, agnostic or atheist, to be abandoned for their own, and they're ready to do so by force of physical harm. If you want sources, just consult your local Islamist scholar.

And much to the chagrin of our local O Club liberals, I will generalize, and say that they are the enemy. Passive or active, moderate or fanatical, they are all nothing more than varying degrees of the same thing--your mortal enemy. They know this, but we, being the kind-hearted, politically-correct sheep that we are, will always give the benefit of the doubt, and buy into age old lie that Islam is "the religion of peace."

Bull****. They are the enemy and they want our heads either kneeling down, or on a platter. The moment that Apple-Pie America understands this, the moment that this nation's will is finally resolved into a single organ, is the moment that the tide turns.

Until then, we'll just be their marionettes... Playing a game that we cannot win, with an enemy that has no mercy.

Too much spin for what I was suggesting. I wasn't doing a "political correctness" dance with you. I was recommending a more logical approach to the problem. Becoming more of the problem isn't it. never has been.

[Neubob]

Well Arlo, and I know I'll be skewered for even eluding to this, but perhaps the blanket approach is exactly what is needed.

We've tried smart bombs. We've tried using our surgical special forces. All these moves demonstrate military proficiency, but they also illustrate our most serious weakness... A total lack of resolve.

Maybe it's time we start getting dirty with them. Make their actions and indiscretions cost them more. Forget liberation. Make them understand and any more religious arrogance will lead to their complete ending. Women, children, cats and dogs, right along with the fanatics.

Yes, it is cruel and yes, it puts us on their level, but that's the unfortunate level we've allowed ourselves to reach as we've let them dictate the terms of this fight.

Let every act of terrorism be answered with an act of terrorism. They used 9/11 as a political fulcrum, over which they leveraged the entire ensuing conflict. If we'd responded to their savagery with equal, or even greater savagery, perhaps the point would have been made. Afterall, you don't deal with a bully by reasoning with him. You deal with him by beating the **** out of him.

We tried the diplomatic route, even though they started the offensive. We tried to liberate them, even though they never asked for it... Maybe we should try to convince them, through action, that another act of terrorism will spell their end. The baseball bat to the head routine worked with the Japanese--who were no less fanatical--why is it that we are so afraid to use it again?

Sometimes I wish that the Islamists had chosen a nation that was less obsessed with its public image to pick a fight with... then again, they chose wisely. They knew we didn't have the resolve to drop the hammer on them. One day we will. I am sure of it. The problem is that that day will be the day after they give is another 9/11.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Neubob
Forget "liberation." Make them understand and any more religious arrogance will lead to their complete ending. Women, children, cats and dogs, right along with the fanatics.

Spoken like a true fanatic.

Originally posted by Neubob
Yes, it is cruel and yes, it puts us on their level, but that's the unfortunate level we've allowed ourselves to reach as we've let them dictate the terms of this fight.

You already are. There's nothing they wanted more than for you to prove they were righteous all along.

Originally posted by Neubob
Let every act of terrorism be answered with an act of terrorism.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Become the problem and it goes away.

Originally posted by Neubob
We tried to liberate them, even though they never asked for it...

 

You don't even see it, do ya?

Originally posted by Neubob
Sometimes I wish that the Islamists had chosen a nation that was less obsessed with its public image to pick a fight with... then again, they chose wisely. They knew we didn't have the resolve to drop the hammer on them. One day we will. I am sure of it. The problem is that that day will be the day after they give is another 9/11.

Well *I* think there's too many enraged would be American terrorists wishing the next one would hurry up and happen. What's taking so long?