The failure of socialized medicine in Canada

[KK9]

Originally posted by vorticon
maybe, how much do you think my taxes would drop if they cut it? how much more would i spend on private health insurance?

Not by much... Considering the state of US dollar, everything is so cheap the US, maybe its even possible to get a deal in healthcare... Americans should really be happy about this, they are the ones who are profiting in this.

Besides, Seattle close to Vancouver and most BC population  is so close to USA border. And if you gotta fly someone somewhere... its probabbly more practical and  more economical to fly 100 miles south, then 700 miles east.

[1K3]

U.S person--Discuss:

How much do you personally support a Canadian system of health care in the U.S.? (aka the "Hillary plan"  of 1994?)
[/B]

1.  Say goodbye to hi-tech medicines/machines.  Most countries with socialized medicine lag behind when it comes to life-saving high tech machines.

2.  Hillary Plan 2.0 will be a lot different (heh I'm still reading it...)

[LePaul]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
(Shrugs) I'm not sure how much you would spend. That would depend on your employer, and what you're willing to pay out of pocket for a good health care system.   We pay about $50/month. But then again, we're fortunate to have two good employers that offer 3 types of health care systems. Free enterprise system.

I also don't believe that the Gov't should pay for my food, shelter, fuel bills, etc. either, but that's just me.....

Government is about helping the eldery, sick and poor.  Those than CAN pay something should.  

I baffles me how it somehow became the employers responsibility for someone's healthcare?  If an individual is responsible for homeowners, car and life insurance, why not health?  (I know, health insurance started to become an employment beneift to attract employees....but boy, hasn't this snowballed into a disaster for any small business)

I'm lucky, I work for a hospital that is self insured.  My insurance is $0.  I pay $10 for the Dental plan.  At my previous job, health insurance was $219 a month.  (Single, no dependents...).  Needless to say, this new job is a huge savings in healthcare alone.   (I've diverted what I would pay for healthcare into both a larger 401k contribution and medical savings account).

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by LePaul

I baffles me how it somehow became the employers responsibility for someone's healthcare?  If an individual is responsible for homeowners, car and life insurance, why not health?  (I know, health insurance started to become an employment beneift to attract employees....but boy, hasn't this snowballed into a disaster for any small business)

Isn't the trade off a lesser wage for medical insurance?

Its a very very VERY uncommon practice here to have medical insurance as a benefit, I can't think of a single person I know who has it.

Originally posted by 1K3
1.  Say goodbye to hi-tech medicines/machines.  Most countries with socialized medicine lag behind when it comes to life-saving high tech machines.

We don't and Australia is a world leader in medical research...

I'm quite happy for my taxes to go into health, having said that the current Liberal govt would rather force people into expensive private insurance than say spending the $A billions of dollars its wasting in Iraq than on the public system.
Private hospitals only benefit are elective surgery, anything like an emergency they send you to a public hospital emergency room anyway.
We had our twins in a private hospital because my wife wanted a particular obstetrician...its amazing what suddenly private insurance suddenly won't cover! And it wasn't some mickey mouse coverage either... Although the govt. partly covered our out of pocket expenses (which was a hell of a lot) we'd never go private again, considering all our friends/family had just as good treatment for their children in the public system.

 Tronsky

[Fishu]

Originally posted by 1K3
1.  Say goodbye to hi-tech medicines/machines.  Most countries with socialized medicine lag behind when it comes to life-saving high tech machines.

What difference does it make if you can't afford the treatment?

Eitherway, the claim of technology lacking behind isn't really true. Unless you mean such hi-tech medicine/machine that even an average american can't afford.

[storch]

Originally posted by Fishu
What difference does it make if you can't afford the treatment?

Eitherway, the claim of technology lacking behind isn't really true. Unless you mean such hi-tech medicine/machine that even an average american can't afford.

what kind of impression you must have of us a people!!! you are mistaken if you think that healthcare is reserved for only those who can afford it.  I could walk into any emergency room in the country and receive proper medical care even if I don't have an insurance card.  there would be lenghty dealings come payment time but I would receive the care and then be sent to the county hospital for whatever follow up medical care might be required.  I could then repay the services at any rate I select, even one dollar per month based on my ability to repay.

we are a benevolent people, we just don't believe in socialism though there is a misguided element within the society that does which so far has been kept at bay by the great hardworking and independant minded majority.

[MiloMorai]

Country - Life expectancy - Infant mortality rate - Physicians per 1000 people -    Nurses per 1000 people - Per capita expenditure on health (USD) - Healthcare costs as a percent of GDP - % of government revenue spent on health  - % of health costs paid by government

Australia - 80.5 - 5.0 - 2.47 - 9.71 - 2,519 - 9.5 - 17.7 - 67.5
Canada - 80.5 - 5.0 - 2.14 - 9.95 - 2,669 - 9.9 - 16.7 - 69.9
France - 79.5 - 4.0 - 3.37 - 7.24 - 2,981 - 10.1 - 14.2 - 76.3
Germany - 80.0 - 4.0 - 3.37-  9.72 - 3,204 - 11.1 - 17.6 - 78.2
Japan - 82.5 - 3.0 - 1.98 - 7.79 - 2,662 - 7.9 - 16.8 - 81.0
Sweden - 80.5 - 3.0 - 3.28 - 10.24 - 3,149 - 9.4 - 13.6 - 85.2
UK - 79.5 - 5.0 - 2.30 - 12.12 - 2,428 - 8.0 - 15.8 - 85.7
USA - 77.5 - 6.0 - 2.56 - 9.37 - 5,711 - 15.2 - 18.5 - 44.6

[MiloMorai]

I have heard horror stories of American heath insurance companies cutting off coverage of 'sick' clients.

[LePaul]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
I have heard horror stories of American heath insurance companies cutting off coverage of 'sick' clients.

True, lots of claims get rejected but there is an appeal process.  

Our system isnt perfect.  Never said it was.

[myelo]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
(Shrugs) I'm not sure how much you would spend. That would depend on your employer, and what you're willing to pay out of pocket for a good health care system.   We pay about $50/month..

I bet you pay a lot more than that, you just don't know it. I'm guessing your employer makes a substantial contribution to your health care premiums. Guess where that money's coming from.

It's the same as when Canadians talk about their "fee" health care. They're paying for it indirectly with taxes.

That's one of the problems with this whole issue, a lot of folks don't understand how expensive health care really is.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Canada's Expectant Moms Heading to U.S. to Deliver

Misleading title.  Health care is managed by the province.  This specific problem is a BC one.

Canadians--Discuss:

What has caused the systematic colllapse of your healthcare system?

Faulty premise.  The system hasn't collapsed and isn't collapsing...perhaps in the near future it will.  Our current system is are least on par or better than the US one is just about every measurable category.  Of course the US system is just about as socialist as the Canadian, although everyone likes to pretend it isn't.  

And what is wrong with our system is the same thing that's wrong with the US one, socialism.  The main difference is that our bureaucrats are unfortunately more efficient at running a socialist system.  This make the system look better than it is.

Luckily we are switching to a more market based, less socialist system.

[lazs2]

How do you have "free" health care?   Are all canadian doctors and drug manufacturers slaves of the state and work for free?

We have a problem here with the fact that we have so many illegals and they are not healthy nor do they live in a healthy manner.. we have negros who are drug addicted and have drug babies (more than other races)

We already give "free" medical care to all of them.   the rest of us support it.   None of this would go away with socialized medicine.. it would just attract more people to the hospitals and doctors.  

If you want cheap medical.. you simply have to not allow the doctors to be sued and.... roll back the types of procedures you will do to the 1960's say... nothing fancy.. don't offer MRI and bloodwork and transplants..

If you have socialized medicine that is what you will get anyway.

It is funny... the people who will fight it the hardest are the scum lawyers but it is really bad for all of us... probly bad for the world.

lazs

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by LePaul
True, lots of claims get rejected but there is an appeal process.  

Our system isnt perfect.  Never said it was.

Doesn't help much if you are d-i-e-d during the appeal process because you couldn't get medicine and/or treatment.

[MiloMorai]

There is 'white trash' in the USA lazs.

[Torque]

how was it a failure... did they not all receive quality health care in the states?

the canadian system is a single payer universal health care system. the system uses public funds but 95% of the service providers are privately owned or are non profit institutions.

a pure socialized health care system is when the govt pays and delivers the complete bricks and motar service like in britain... or like any police or fire departments or utility.

say what you will... but we get universal coverage at half the per-capita cost and the canadian system has the bureaucracy slipstreamed to about 2% of total cost the american system is around 10%.

since the implementation of it a few decades ago we've spread apart 2.5 years more in life expectancy and have a substantially lower infant mortality rate.

also current studies have shown canadians are healthier and have far less diseases than their americans counterparts.

sure there is never going to be a perfect system... and each system has it problems.

but then again... it's a failure because faux news tells the sheeples so.