Author Topic: The failure of socialized medicine in Canada (Read 1825 times)

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 13, 2007, 06:57:00 PM »

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Originally posted by bj229r
Why do socialists hate the 'rich' so much?

They don't understand choice or free will. They never will.

crockett · « **Reply #46 on:** October 13, 2007, 07:48:38 PM »

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Originally posted by lasersailor184
They don't understand choice or free will. They never will.

That's funny, because you seem to be against choice and free will for Americans.

Just because there, might be socialized medicine in Canada doesn't mean they can't pick to pay for services not provided by the govt. So they have "the choice" to use the free govt provided healthcare or pay for service provided by private care.

Here in the US we don't have the same "choice" or "free will", seems to me Canadians have more choices and free will than we do.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 13, 2007, 07:54:25 PM »

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Originally posted by crockett
That's funny, because you seem to be against choice and free will for Americans.

Just because there, might be socialized medicine in Canada doesn't mean they can't pick to pay for services not provided by the govt. So they have "the choice" to use the free govt provided healthcare or pay for service provided by private care.

Here in the US we don't have the same "choice" or "free will", seems to me Canadians have more choices and free will than we do.

Was that the best you can reply with? I've seen you do better when you were drunk.

LePaul · « **Reply #48 on:** October 13, 2007, 07:59:46 PM »

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Originally posted by bj229r

Why do socialists hate the 'rich' so much?

Because they do not beleive in working, they feel the government should fund them for existing. Those who work hard and suceed in life should be punished, by their narrow view.

bj229r · « **Reply #49 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:08:42 PM »

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Originally posted by crockett
That's funny, because you seem to be against choice and free will for Americans.

Just because there, might be socialized medicine in Canada doesn't mean they can't pick to pay for services not provided by the govt. So they have "the choice" to use the free govt provided healthcare or pay for service provided by private care.

Here in the US we don't have the same "choice" or "free will", seems to me Canadians have more choices and free will than we do.

Ahem:

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Then he made a disturbing discovery: He couldn’t pay for it himself. Canadian law forbids private payment for a covered medical service.

This was the law for YEARS---the article I referenced was written 2 years ago, after the poor shmuck went through the legal system for most of a decade---if you recall, the 1993 version of HillaryCare had this exact same provision...WHY would anyone want to pay to get service? To get around the incredibly LONG waiting lists that socialised medicine invariable brings about for many procedures---this prevents the afore-mentioned evil rich people from jumping ahead in line and getting treatment (which they NOW get by going to the US)

straffo · « **Reply #50 on:** October 14, 2007, 03:44:14 AM »

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Originally posted by bj229r
20 million, 30 million, 40 million, every few months the Dems increase the amount of people in the US who are said to have no insurance......if no insurance = death, then WHY are dozens upon dozens of hospitals near the Mejican border closing down due to losing money hand over fist?

link

Why do socialists hate the 'rich' so much?

It's nothing related to the rich but a rich who want to bypass the rules and have not a slight idea of what morality and ethic is , fyi : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
They don't understand choice or free will. They never will.

you,neither ,had he cross the border or gone to the private sector his problem would have been solved.

I don't understand why a wimp should have been pushed up in list just because he has more money than someone suffering like him but poorest.

straffo · « **Reply #51 on:** October 14, 2007, 03:46:00 AM »

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Originally posted by bj229r
Ahem: This was the law for YEARS---the article I referenced was written 2 years ago, after the poor shmuck went through the legal system for most of a decade---if you recall, the 1993 version of HillaryCare had this exact same provision...WHY would anyone want to pay to get service? To get around the incredibly LONG waiting lists that socialised medicine invariable brings about for many procedures---this prevents the afore-mentioned evil rich people from jumping ahead in line and getting treatment (which they NOW get by going to the US)

And the rich to want to pay more taxes to improve the efficiency of public services

A chicken and egg story.

x0847Marine · « **Reply #52 on:** October 14, 2007, 05:14:47 AM »

"at least 40" people doing something isn't an indication of "success", or "failure".. or even news. I saw 40 people on the bus, car sales must be failing.

"It's a big number.." said one person, woah.. now thats convincing.

Canada has a whopping 33 million... not even equal to California's 36 Million, free health care for such a small population hardly compares to what it would take here, with 301 million.

Using this tortured logic, plastic surgery in the US is a "failure" since "at least" 40 Americans travel to Mexico for plastic surgery, US divorce laws are also a failure, "at least" 40 US citizens get a Mexican divorce every year.

Free health care is a great idea, and the US could easily afford it with a little less .gov waste... but the republicans & democrats are way too inept and slaved to "the party" line to actually come together for the good of the people and accomplish anything that difficult... they'd rather point the finger & play the blame game in a transparent attempt to protect those who donate the most $$.

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 14, 2007, 09:20:34 AM »

xmar4ine... I see your libertarianism does have limits... you do want other people to pay for your "free" medical care.

milo... the article said very little.. it did not answer any questions at all.. I don't know how much money is taken from both systems in malpractice for instance.. just what the size of the awards are.. not how many.. I did google and found out that 70% of the insurance the doctors have is paid for by the government but that share is going down.. medical will go up.

We discover and test the drugs.. a very expensive process and the canadians reap the benifiets. If we stopped testing and approving them they would be cheap..

If we trashed out expensive machines and ran the rest 24 hours a day and cut put a wage cap on medical people... and crowded in just one more bed per room.... we would save money.... if we had a waiting list for non critical operations until people on the list died or gave up... we would save money.

oh... the broken leg in BC cost me $275. When I got home we had to have the thing recasted after the leg was "adjusted".. seems they had not taken an xray and had cast it wrong.... well... wrong so far as the US doc was concerned.. it would have been crooked but she would have lived.

lazs

Shuffler · « **Reply #54 on:** October 14, 2007, 09:34:36 AM »

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Originally posted by KK9
Yes, because US is not offering this service for free.
Canadian goverment gets billed for all of that.

So your canadian wife will have to fly all the way to mexico if the US follows suit.

I wouldn't let hillary wash my truck.

CptTrips · « **Reply #55 on:** October 14, 2007, 09:57:34 AM »

Look. I could almost be convinced that that a minimal, basic level of health assistance should be provided by the goverment for those who would not otherwise be able to afford it.

But I think the form it should take should be closer to a Goverment susidised health insurance pool rather than Goverment doctors and Goverment hospitals. A sort of GEICO for health insurance.

An absolute deal-breaker for me, would be any suggestion that I couldn't pay extra out of my pocket to a private doctor for faster/better service if I have the income to do so, whether the procedure is covered by the Goverment plan or not.

An absolute deal-breaker for me, would be any suggestion that doctors could only practice within the Goverment health system, that they could not have a private practice.

-Wab

bj229r · « **Reply #56 on:** October 14, 2007, 10:11:34 AM »

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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Look. I could almost be convinced that that a minimal, basic level of health assistance should be provided by the goverment for those who would not otherwise be able to afford it.

But I think the form it should take should be closer to a Goverment susidised health insurance pool rather than Goverment doctors and Goverment hospitals. A sort of GEICO for health insurance.

An absolute deal-breaker for me, would be any suggestion that I couldn't pay extra out of my pocket to a private doctor for faster/better service if I have the income to do so, whether the procedure is covered by the Goverment plan or not.

An absolute deal-breaker for me, would be any suggestion that doctors could only practice within the Goverment health system, that they could not have a private practice.

-Wab

My thoughts as well--the Dems currently state there are some 40 million uninsured (likely half that long term, far less if you take out illegal aliens:D) WHY cant people have the option of checking a box on their W-4 form which would deduct a couple hundred a month out of their paychecks, give them a little card, create a small agency to deal with them (billing), like an OTHER insurance company? The problem so many have is they perhaps own a small business, or a have 2-3 part-time jobs, and don't qualify for 'group' coverage anywhere.---And of the afore-mentioned 40 milion, how many are kids in their early 20's who see no reason to HAVE insurance...200 a month is a good chunk of a payment for one of those obnoxious little jap cars with the loud stereos:)

lazs2 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 14, 2007, 10:22:34 AM »

anyone can get a high deductible insurance plan for less than $100 a month...

I know that all those poor uninsured folks have cell phones and cable tv and a car and car insurance.

many are illegal aliens who need to simply go home... many are people who have 3 or more kids when they can't even take care of themselves... that is not my problem. they need to get spayed and neutered.

lazs

MiloMorai · « **Reply #58 on:** October 14, 2007, 11:31:22 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
We discover and test the drugs.. a very expensive process and the canadians reap the benifiets. If we stopped testing and approving them they would be cheap..

I didn't know that it was only the usa that discovered and tested drugs.

Read up on Sir Frederick Grant Banting and Charles Herbert Best.

Btw, just because the usa passes a drug does not mean it passes in Canada.

lazs2 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 14, 2007, 12:26:12 PM »

I am generalizing... we discover and test far more drugs than anyone else.. and.. it is far more expensive the way we do it. Look at the abortion drug and all the your-0-peean snake oil cancer "cures" for instance... go to mexico and buy copies of US drugs for pennies on the dollar... take your chances of course...

I don't really care tho... get rid of the FDA so far as I am concerned... put the stuff out there... after enough canadians and such have done the human testing for me... If I need it... I will buy it.

lazs