Author Topic: The failure of socialized medicine in Canada  (Read 1936 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Re: Socialized anything is a failure
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2007, 01:03:15 AM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
They are however a very inefficient use of resources and are immoral.


Hell, you could be talking about an Enron CEO. ;)

Offline thrila

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The failure of socialized medicine in Canada
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2007, 03:51:27 AM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
My wife has been in the medical industry for 20+ years, she claims that the high cost of prrescription drugs in the US. helps pay for research and development into in medical break throughs, advances, and drugs. I'll take her word for it (a source from the industry) rather than some gal named "thrila". ;)


Of course the cost of prescription drugs covers the pay for research and development.  GlaxoSmithKline a British pharmaceutical company is the second largest in the world.  However they billions of profit annually, i'm sure they could lower the cost of drugs a little.  However my point was that the way the US R&D drugs is no way different to any other country in the Western World, there is no "special way".  The more money you throw at it, the more research can be done, the higher the probability something will be discovered.

If i stay on in the biomedical industry I'd like to work in academia (i'm sure many posters would love that), however only about 1/60 post-docs actually have that opportunity.  It is much more likely i'll end up working for a pharmaceutical company.

Oh and thrila is unisex damn you!  Unisex!!:D
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline -tronski-

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The failure of socialized medicine in Canada
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2007, 05:15:36 AM »
Thats the same argument the american drugs companies have when it comes to our Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
The PBS is a list of about 600 types of drugs (2500 brands) which are subsidised by the govt, so the maximum anyone will pay is $30 for a drug on the list (about $4 for pensioners, the elderly, Vets etc) with a safety net of $1050 ($274 concession) which is the maximum you will pay in a year for PBS drugs.
Drugs which make the list are tested for quality as well as for cost effectiveness. The Federal govt. negotiates with Australian drug companies for the cost of the drug on the PBS.
According to the govt: Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme

Manufacturer prices for Australia's top-selling pharmaceuticals in Australia:

* are at least 162 per cent higher in the US (and 84 per cent higher when discounts are taken into account)
* are at least 48 per cent to 51 per cent higher in the UK, Canada and Sweden
* are similar to pricing in France, Spain, and NZ

Under the Australian - US free trade agreement, American drug companies wanted to abolish the PBS because they didn't like the fact the govt departments negotiate on behalf of consumers for pricing, that "fixed price control" inhibited the recovery of R&D costs, and because the PBS tested for cost-effectiveness and supplanted less effective drugs it was "anti-free trade".

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline Ripsnort

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The failure of socialized medicine in Canada
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2007, 08:08:10 AM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
That's great, you work in the "aviation field" therefore I should ask your opinion on flight attendant labour issues in a small Uzbek carrier?  

Being a nurse doesn't make anyone an authority on the economics of the pharmaceutical industry, it makes them an expert on administering drugs.


She works with some world famous (in the industry) surgeons who have created new surgical procedures so take it for for its worth. The UW is a leader in medical procedure development, partially fed by the pharmacudical industry.

Stories like these result from R&D spending:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071015/D8S9L9LO0.html

Offline lazs2

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The failure of socialized medicine in Canada
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2007, 08:19:01 AM »
xmarine...LOL... now socialized medicine is ok for a "libertarian"?

We all have a right to health care right?  and to food?  and to a roof over our heads? and to that guy over there's money?  

It's soooooo unfair that you should have to pay for your own medical.   That you should have to take care of yourself when there are all these rich people with money they aren't even using!

I don't care... go ahead.. pay for my medical.. no big deal.   Hell...  look at all the illegals here who have to wait in the emergency room now...  how degrading for them!  

I know... why not just build hospitals in mexico and make doctors work there for free?

socialism is a bad thing... period.  It is the worst possible way to treat humans.   Women in this country will bring it to us tho.

lazs

Offline x0847Marine

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The failure of socialized medicine in Canada
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2007, 07:45:11 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
xmarine...LOL... now socialized medicine is ok for a "libertarian"?

We all have a right to health care right?  and to food?  and to a roof over our heads? and to that guy over there's money?  

It's soooooo unfair that you should have to pay for your own medical.   That you should have to take care of yourself when there are all these rich people with money they aren't even using!

I don't care... go ahead.. pay for my medical.. no big deal.   Hell...  look at all the illegals here who have to wait in the emergency room now...  how degrading for them!  

I know... why not just build hospitals in mexico and make doctors work there for free?

socialism is a bad thing... period.  It is the worst possible way to treat humans.   Women in this country will bring it to us tho.

lazs


I'll try again: "it's a good idea", which says nothing about food or home "rights".. which rights are you even talking about?, the bill of rights? Miranda rights? rights of way in traffic?

I think its a good idea to aggressively treat a brokeass US citizen with cancer, or give a poor kid who lost a leg a prosthetic...  rather than let them rot to death or hop around.

This country is easily capable of accomplishing that. How?.. I don't know. This joke of a govt is too wasteful & incompetent.. cooperate USA can't make a profit, thus it isn't in their interests. Well, maybe they could make "look how much we care"ad revenue by making 1/2 dead cancer patients and crippled kids wear nascar jumpsuits emblazoned with corporate sponsor logos.

"This cancer brought to you by Viagra, just because you're dying.. doesn't mean you can get laid"

If it goes against some libertarian value, whoop-de fluff'n do.. I don't walk in lockstep with any party, unlike the "left vs right" clowns, I think for myself.

Offline lazs2

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The failure of socialized medicine in Canada
« Reply #81 on: October 16, 2007, 08:37:33 AM »
You think for yourself?   So what party wants socialized medicine and smaller government and lower taxes and want's to let you sit around the house doing nothing?

better yet.. what candidate?   I guess we are right back where we started and you really are a socialist at heart.

It comes down to that you think that people who won't get medical insurance deserve for other people to pay for it.  The government doesn't have any money... if there is "free" medical it is paid for by someone who has had the money taken from them.

How can anyone not buy health insurance if they can afford a car and cable tv and a cell phone?  

So many act like free medical paid for by your neighbor is your right because it is so important...

Important?  it must not be since people will by booze and cable tv and cell phones and even a boat before they will buy insurance... if it is so unimportant to them.... why should I care?

lazs