Author Topic: 1984 in Britain again...... (Read 1213 times)

AKIron · « **Reply #30 on:** October 21, 2007, 03:07:18 PM »

Who can argue that the parent/teacher relationship isn't symbiotic? They must work together to produce society sustaining organisms. Government should have no dictatorial role in this process, imo.

Time for the Cowboy game and I'm juiced.

Shuckins · « **Reply #31 on:** October 21, 2007, 03:17:55 PM »

Lazs, the amount of hours needed to grade papers and make corrections has to be experienced to be believed. Especially English essays and the like.

If I'm doing my job correctly, it takes at least two hours a night, and many nights much more. Often I didn't lay the last paper aside until 11:00 p.m. Weekend breaks were a horrendous joke. If I went out of town with the wife, I carried a stack of papers. If I was watching a football game with Dad, I watched it while grading papers. If I watched tv, I did so while grading papers.

After retiring, it took me two months to uncross my eyes and pry the pen from my fingers.

I agree with you that small private or public schools are the way to go. I've taught at both large and small schools, and I can state emphatically that "small" is the way to go. The statements made over the last 30 years that larger is more efficient are complete balderdash. Large size merely compounds the problems and makes them much harder to deal with.

More men are needed in education. The number is at an all time low. They are needed as role models, to provide discipline and muscle when needed, and to add backbone to a system that is often over-nurturing. The types who aren't easily hood-winked or "played" by miscreant students.

More rigor in the earliest years of a student's education is the greatest problem that needs to be addressed by today's schools. No child should be passed from the third grade until they have mastered the multiplication tables. I can't tell you the number of times I have received a new 7th grade class, fresh from our elementary system, and found that some of my charges can't do double-digit multiplication problems, or couldn't read beyond the third grade level.

That is an inexcusable failure of the elementary school system.

I support the voucher system for two reasons: it gives concerned parents an option other than the public schools; and it forces the public schools to reassess their failed approaches to education to keep from losing students, and thus, state money allotments for those students.

lazs2 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:10:01 AM »

mav and shuckins.. you want me to take more time in my kids education? then give em back more hours of the day.

You say that you can't do your work in 8 hours.. that it takes 2 hours to grade papers? Then close the school to students and 1500 and grade papers till 1700. work 8 hours a day for the entire year.

If you still can't get finished... work overtime or shorten the school day another hour.. if 5% of the teachers can't keep up.. get rid of em.

Are you saying that I should believe every teacher that says they are busting their butts working at home where no one can see em? laughable... I have known plenty of teachers... I have two cousins that are teachers and they are inneficient and lazy in everything else... why would they be any different as teachers.

I do not want to trust teachers any more than any other worker. You work overtime then it needs to be supervised or I don't believe it. You need to do it at the place you work. You don't need to shut down those expensive facilities half the year and then complain you have "no time" to do your work.

Work a real 8 hours like everyone else.

lazs

Maverick · « **Reply #33 on:** October 22, 2007, 07:47:35 PM »

Laz,

I've actually done that job as well as other jobs so I know what an 8 hour and a 10+ hour day is like. You won't believe me anyhow so there is not much point in telling you different. I've been there and done it I don't need anecdotes from relatives to tell me what it's like.

I do have a novel idea for you to try. Do you have a Bachelors degree? If so you might want to try teaching a bit yourself. Be a substitute teacher for a while. Once you get in a classroom and try it you might see things a bit differently. It will be teaching without all of the requirements of the job as you won't be making all the class lesson plans and won't be responsible for much grading. You'll still get a taste of what it's like. You can even try elementary school which would be easier than dealing with middle or high school.

Toad · « **Reply #34 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:58:02 PM »

A very dear friend of mine, now departed, taught school in a small Kansas country town pre-WW2 and for a bit after.

They had the kids about 5 hours a day, tops; kids had farm chores to do you know. Real work for the family type stuff.

She always laughed later on when her daughter-in-law principal used to complain that nowadays they just didn't have the kids long enough to teach them what they needed to know.

Her comment was they managed to get very good proficiency in reading, writing and arithmetic in about 4 hours a day, with NO homework. The kids didn't have time for homework when they got up with the sun and went to bed when it got dark and had to do their chores.

It's all about priorities folks.

68Wooley · « **Reply #35 on:** October 23, 2007, 12:40:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Please.. somebody... anybody tell me I am not the only one who laughed hysterically at the irony in this statement.

Tell me I'm not the only one who gets it.

Angus · « **Reply #36 on:** October 23, 2007, 03:52:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
A very dear friend of mine, now departed, taught school in a small Kansas country town pre-WW2 and for a bit after.

They had the kids about 5 hours a day, tops; kids had farm chores to do you know. Real work for the family type stuff.

She always laughed later on when her daughter-in-law principal used to complain that nowadays they just didn't have the kids long enough to teach them what they needed to know.

Her comment was they managed to get very good proficiency in reading, writing and arithmetic in about 4 hours a day, with NO homework. The kids didn't have time for homework when they got up with the sun and went to bed when it got dark and had to do their chores.

It's all about priorities folks.

Pretty much same with i.e. my grandparents, - and although I picked up more education then they eventually had at the age, - with twice or many times the time, - they would surprize me with their knowledge. And the basics were just fine.
Many people really want to have the school do a job for them, and often there is not much reward in preparing the child well, for the school will keep the speed of the slow ones. The better informed get bored.
So, I have 3 years before my older daughter starts school, and I'm already sweating. She even knows who the red Baron was and speaks German as well

Vulcan · « **Reply #37 on:** October 23, 2007, 04:09:36 AM »

While there are certainly some exceptions to the rule I've had some personal bad experiences with teachers.

Dunno what you guys call it but when I was 16 I had a physics teacher who refused to answer my questions in class, he basically ignored me entirely. I complained to our 'form' teacher, he advised me he'd check it out but didn't really believe me. A week or so later I overhead a fellow student making the same complaint.

I confronted our form teacher on the spot, and his answer was basically 'what can we do, we can't get another physics teacher quickly so him teaching some of the class is better than none at all'. Well, turns out he was wrong. You see this physics teacher taught some wierd prettythang eastern physics notation, I self taught myself based on some american book I picked up (which was awesome). Turns out the NZ University Entrance exams were based on the american system. All but two of the class failed, me and another student.

I also had similar experiences with an english teacher. We were asked to write about significant experiences we'd had. I decided to write about a war exercise I participated in (I was in Air Cadets, we provided opposing forces to out territorials - who are kinda like the national guard - weekend warriors

). During that exercise I had about 6 hours sleep over 4 or 5 days. On the last day I was so physically exhausted I was hallucinating / dreaming while standing up. I was quite an experience. So I wrote about that, she failed me saying what I wrote was rubbish (fantasy), and inappropriate to write about 'war'.

These weren't the only two, but highlighted experiences I've had with teachers over the years. I will say I had some very good teachers as well, but the bad ones need to be weeded out.

lazs2 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 23, 2007, 08:35:12 AM »

mav... that is all well and good.. so what is wrong with my suggestion? why not let em work 8 hours 52 weeks a year (minus 12 holidays and 2-4 weeks paid vacation a year and have short 4-5 hour school days FOR THE KIDS.

Why not pay overtime for any work that doesn't get done? Why the hell should I believe the teacher who says that they are killing themselves working... all of it out of sight and unsupervised? Why do they insist on working 24 hours a day 6 months of the year?

What good is a bunch of expensive facilities left vacant half the year???

And.. what is with all the blaming and whining?

"its the parents fault" "we don't have enough money" "the classes are too big"

BS... toad gives an example... In my case.. the catholic school I went to had 50-60 or so per class... my parents never helped me with my homework... if they did... and the nun found out... she would have failed us. Now all of a sudden.. the parents have to work full time (that is 52 weeks not half a year) and then.. come home and teach their kids????

If I were a teacher.... I would not work at home. I would be blaming the system that allowed the kids to stay home for months at a time not learning....no... forgeting everything I had taught them earlier.

You don't apprentice as a machinist say... by going at it 6 months a year.. Taking 3 months off or more to forget what you learned.

So far as I am concerned.. the teachers who claim they can't teach don't have a leg to stand on if they continue to advocate the current system.

They are either liars or incompetent.

I don't have a BS degree but... if it is the thing most teachers have then I see how it got it's initials.

lazs

Swoop · « **Reply #39 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:06:48 AM »

Silly question I gotta ask. What are the school dates in the US then?

Cos in Britain it's 6 weeks off over the summer, a 1 week half term break, 3 weeks off for xmas, another half term break, 2 weeks off at easter and another half term break.

14 weeks off in total, the rest are school days.

lazs2 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:13:30 AM »

It varies but... about twice that ours are off if you count all the other holidays and the "teacher days" (no school)

also.. the kids are only in the class, being taught, about 4-5 actual hours a day. the teachers have hour long breaks and shorter ones between each class..

In every case.. kids leave a couple hours early (before the teachers).

lazs

Swoop · « **Reply #41 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:30:53 AM »

our hours are 9am til 4pm with around an hour and a half in breaks.

Least it was when I was at school.....um.....a while back.