Author Topic: Please comment: acm and gunnery  (Read 1983 times)

Offline Simaril

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« on: October 21, 2007, 06:20:11 PM »
On a really cold streak while I try to lift my game a notch, with nothing seeming to go right. Finally starting to film more regularly in hopes of finding some problems to address, and here are a couple I'd appreciate comments on.

First one is posted for gunnery help. Am I out of alignment? Is timing off, too little lead? I got some hits on the first pony, and he went down -- but I feel like I fired too soon. The second engagement was a 1v3, and I knew I had given the F4U a free pass...was hoping he would miss, or that my movement would deny his higher speed pass the angle. Obviously didnt work that way as I became a Type 1 Lighter. Appreciate thoughts about ACM decisions and guns.


gun film -- 2 pasted together


Second film was a very tough engagement. Ended up 1v2 against superior planes with an energy and map position disadvantage. I stretched it out, but died to a very patient opponent. Could I have made better decisions? I used the same move each time, but wasnt sure what else to do with an opponent so near to my E, and who had a backup doing top cover.

defensive energy fight


As always, appreciate the help.
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Offline humble

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 06:34:53 PM »
looking st the top clip one time...best way to get initial impressions...

1) The single biggest mistake is your burying the con under your nose. your pulling lead very early and then more or less "freezing the nose". Ideally you want to pull the nose thru the shot as you fire...your pulling then fishing for the shot.

2) your getting in plane with the con early. You want to be out of plane. Look at your last shots on the pony to see what I mean...will look at 2nd clip later...

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Offline humble

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 07:00:27 PM »
Following up on the top clip I'd say your problems are "pre-gunnery". Your not positioning yourself well to make the shot. Almost every shot you posted was blind...

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Offline humble

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2007, 07:34:04 PM »
Commenting on the 2nd...

Obviously anytime your outnumbered and neg E you have problems...

Having said that I dont like your opening split-S reverse to a uphill FQ shot. Your in plane and have no upside afterward. If you take damage your toast and your now defensive. I'd have low yoyo'd back and side stepped his nose down shot and gotten him under me....

Looking past that a couple thing stand out...

1st, for an experienced stick you've got your head in the cockpit way to much and that hurts both ACM and gunnery....

2nd, your evasives are....evasive. You dont really convert to offense. You go right back to defensive posture. If we look at the "chase scene" you've gotten out of dodge and have two cons..not good odds but better then you could have. I understand you had trees and were flying to the lower ground but I'd have reversed sooner. Once the pony is inside 800 your evading not reversing and the 190 is trailing far enough back he can pick you....

Which comes to #3....no evidience of a plan. IMO you died because you had no other option. Your only going to evade so long so you need to decide who your gonna kill and go for it.

I uploaded my last hop of today. Nothing but the "other side" of how I fly {I dont say I fly stupid for nothing:)}. For whatever reason I decided I wanted to shoot the 38...of course it didnt work out that way.

Pay attention to a couple of things.

My head is outside the plane as much as possible {and "F3" gives that a whole new meaning}. Once I've engaged "Stupid drive" and got myself in way to deep then the "pilot stuff" override kicks in when the F8 arrives.

Look at the "offensive evasive" on the F8 and the shot...see how easy the views are since I've got him in sight. Then look at the "evasives". Yes I'm avoiding stuff but I'm looking to pop guys as well. I just miss the lala. Also I'm never stable or level or "wallowing" and I dont look at the inside of my plane once. Basically I'm fighting the plane till it goes.

"stupd drive engaged captain"

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Offline Simaril

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2007, 08:58:08 PM »
Hmmm. I'm not sure i understand. And to be honest, I think most of my problems flying are conceptual, rather than stick precision. I often just don't know what to do.


At the time I reversed on the pony, I was just being aggressive and seeking to engage. I wasn't looking for a shot on the reversal, I was thinking about doing a lead turn immel. I thought that being below him on the merge was an advantage.

My lag roll reversal has never been smooth, and I'm usually late setting up the shot when they stay with me. But I'm not sure what else I could have done. And what do you mean by "keeping my head in the cockpit'? The views are pretty tough in the F4u-1 birdcage, but I thought I knew where those guys were right along. I'm wondering if the film viewer is missing the blackouts I had to take to get inside his turn since the Pony's speed was so close to mine.

Not sure what being out of plane does for me in the attack, either. I thought I wanted to be in plane for shots, since that keeps the plane from flying safely through the "V" of the convergence.

Feeling more like a newb every day.
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Offline Lusche

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2007, 09:52:13 PM »
I was just watching your first film. And the thing that immediately sprang to my attention, especially in the second part, is that you don't look around often enough.  You were flying a slow, fragile plane amidst a horde of red icons - you got to keep your head whirling all the time. Every time you did concentrate on a potential target, you forgot to scan the sky around you.
You were suffering some mild form of target fixation.  When you were following the pony you even did ignore the F4U in front of you, heading directly towards you.
(Not that such things don't happen to me ;))

If you mentally "lock on" a plane, don't forget to continue scanning the sky.
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Offline humble

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2007, 09:56:00 PM »
It's not easy to grasp some of this stuff. I still make mistakes ACM wise all the time compared to the "uber" guys. Wadke schooled me 3 or 4 in a row the other day...just makes you want to pull your hair out.

Everybody has various applications of theory. There is more then one right way. The key is to find the "school of flying" that works for you. Mine is simple I avoid that which kills me and seek that which kills them.

So....

From a position of advantage I seek to close the noose and give no breathing room I believe in the "smothering E attack" I try and stay in the semi verticals and use throttle and rudder and attack from above to the target and above.

On defense...

I trust in the semi verticals, basically "rolling scissors kung fu" If your on the defensive never flat, never to fast and never in plane. If he's close enough to kill you then he's close enough for you to kill. I want every shot on me taken under load and at unusual attitude. I want every shot you take to be my idea and not yours....

It works great....right up till it doesnt. Most of the time I die because i'm stupid or totally misjudge E state (leaving out the inevitiable SA lapses). I lose relatively few "even" one on ones in the MA (regardless of what i'm flying). The guys who kill me just beat the snot out of me most of the time regardless of what they're flying or what i'm in. I have relatively few guys I trade off with.


I think your starting point is here...

I was just being aggressive and seeking to engage. I wasn't looking for a shot on the reversal, I was thinking about doing a lead turn immel. I thought that being below him on the merge was an advantage

I always have a plan...now it doesnt always work...but I have one. I never just try and be "aggressive". If you have the advantage you need to be aggressive...if your defensive you need to be passive until you can act offensively.

I'd find a trainer you feel comfortable with and build a style that works for you. Any time you happen to see me up feel free to ride along for a hop or two.

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Offline mtnman

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2007, 10:09:28 PM »
Snaphook has some good comments.  I'll add a few of my own without repeating too much of what he's already stated.

Basics that helped me go from under 5% hits, to 10-15% without even really trying anymore-

1- Set your convergence close.  I set mine at 275. (F4U)

2- Shoot planes at your convergence whenever possible.  When the counter changes from 400 to 200, your at 299 yards.  Aim and shoot, you'll be at 275 when you fire.

3- Aim small- miss small.  Aim big- miss big.  Pick a small target to hit, and even if you're off slightly, you'll still hit close enough to do the damage you want.  Don't shoot at the plane, shoot at a part of it.  Aim at the plane, and miss slightly, you've missed the plane.  Aim at the cockpit and miss slightly, hit the wing, or the engine, or the tail, etc...

4- Shoot (practice) alot.  Don't worry so much about actual hit % yet, that will improve on it's own.  Worry about hitting your target.  I don't subscribe to the "less is more" theory, where a limited ammo plane like a yak is recommended to "force" you into aiming.  How do basketball players get better at free-throws?  By shooting A LOT of baskets, or by trying real hard to score with just a few practice throws?  Repetition is key.  Shoot alot.  Do that by taking a plane with a lot of ammo.  I recommend a pony, or F4U, or Jug.  Shoot alot, but don't just randomly spray. (Lots of QUALITY practice). AIM!  Watch for results.  Make corrections mentally, and try again.  Lead needs to be "felt".  It changes way too much to be able to describe where to aim.  One hint though-  if you miss due to incorrect lead, you'll almost always be missing behind him.  It takes more lead than most realize, especially on those crossing shots.

You mention lead (too much?  not enough?)  Who knows??  You can't see the planes you're shooting at, so how can you judge lead?  I believe that's what Snaphook means by being out of plane.  In film one, at 5 seconds in, and 35 seconds in, you're shooting blind.  In both instances, I'd normally set up at an angle, and shoot more like you do at 1:03 or so (where you missed the KI84).  I want to see the plane and watch his path cross my gunsight. If I need to bury him behind the instrument panel I will, but I want to do that for as brief a time as possible.   Shooting blind makes it impossible to judge lead, because you're guessing about when and where to shoot, instead of "knowing".  It's randomly successful, but is based more on luck, less on skill, so can't really be improved on.  Once you get a better feel for lead you'll be able to make those shots too, but you'll do it because you've already learned where to shoot.

Ideally, I would even go to a lag pursuit mode at about 57 seconds for at least a little bit, to set up more behind the KI, and not take such a high deflection shot.  Even if you don't get the shot initially, you may be in a better position for a better shot a little later.  Personally, I'd rather have one good shot opportunity than 5 "iffy" ones.  

I didn't see the second film yet (slow dial-up).

MtnMan
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Offline The Fugitive

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2007, 06:28:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
.........

1st, for an experienced stick you've got your head in the cockpit way to much and that hurts both ACM and gunnery....
 



Snap, what do you mean my this comment?

Offline Simaril

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2007, 08:55:07 AM »
Thanks for the excellent tips. I'm going to watch the films again with your comments in mind, and see if I can wrap my head around this stuff. I can see already that keeping out of plane will make a BIG difference in gunnery.


(BTW -- For what its worth, I knew exactly where the F4U was and that he was swooping in to attack. I just decided not to care, and to hope for the best so I could try to take at least one of them out.)

Dave
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 09:15:03 AM by Simaril »
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Offline humble

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2007, 09:11:10 AM »
He seemed to be in the "front" view "flying the plane" thru alot of his manuevering (but not all the time). I'd like to see him "locked on" the bogie as much as possible...I think "lose the view, lose the fight" is a truism.

I think good gunnery is a by product of good tactics and ACM. From what I saw Sim is placing himself in tough positions to hit shots from. I've got another short clip from yesterday that shows "head out of the window" pretty well....

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Offline goober69

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2007, 09:26:18 AM »
seems to be some of the mistakes i am making in my gunnery. a lot of the time im firing blind over the cowling, mostly on tracking shots.

i dont really keep my head in the cockpit very badly, only when im target fixated. trying to get better at that.
i guess hth did teach me a few things and sa was one even though there was usualy only 4 guys to watch out for lol.

you know i never thought about rolling to keep the enemy in sight on a crossing shot, realized that usualy from the way im rolled they go under my nose on those shots, would inverting be good idea too?

what do you do when a guy just starts stick stiring everytime you get in range?
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Offline humble

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2007, 09:45:52 AM »
Fugitive, maybe this helps show what I mean....

I get two very brief looks at the jug. On both I'm tracking him the entire time and getting myself in position for some type of snap shot. On the third I get slightly out of whack and end up having to bury the nose and he adjusts nicely and I miss....on the flip side you'll see he trys to set up 2 or 3 wing overs and since I dont lose him I can adjust (or in one case just push the nose down and scoot). So here I hit two snapshots and miss the "easy" shot entirely. From my perspective the 1st two shots were the product of my ACM. The 3rd was the by product of his interation with the other cons and change from engaging me to evading.

I've got my eyes on the jug almost the entire time which is what I mean by looking "out of the cockpit". As a side note Frenchy fought the jug all the way down engaged for at least a couple of minutes after that then got it down on the runway...was a very nice piece of defensive flying.

Looking out the window

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Offline Murdr

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2007, 11:22:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mtnman
I don't subscribe to the "less is more" theory, where a limited ammo plane like a yak is recommended to "force" you into aiming.

"Less is more" as you call it, is not for aiming per say.  It's for as you described below.  Forcing yourself to maneuver and craft an effective shooting opportunity, rather than just any shot.

Ideally, I would even go to a lag pursuit mode at about 57 seconds for at least a little bit, to set up more behind the KI, and not take such a high deflection shot.  Even if you don't get the shot initially, you may be in a better position for a better shot a little later.  Personally, I'd rather have one good shot opportunity than 5 "iffy" ones.  

Offline Murdr

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Please comment: acm and gunnery
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2007, 11:51:10 AM »
Personally I would be hesitant to dissuade someone from practicing shooting on the blind.  I kill too many planes with an empty windscreen and the only feedback on the quality of the shot being a victory message.  It's not the prefered gun solution, but don't pass on the opportunity when there's no risk of overshooting afterwards.