General Climate Discussion

[lazs2]

angus..  did you watch the video?  

If you would rather read...

http://www.climatechangeissues.com/files/PDF/conf05carter.pdf

I don't think the vikings farming greenland called it greenland as a real estate scheme.

There have been hotter periods where the temp went up faster.. no polar bears died... nor did "70% of the earths species"   did you know that about 85% of things on the "endangered species" list are insects?

lazs

[lazs2]

this one may be better...

http://epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf

It is more like the vid.

lazs

[Angus]

Lazs:
"I don't think the vikings farming greenland called it greenland as a real estate scheme."

Nice throw. Well, this is a history that I know vastly more about than you do.
"GREENLAND" was perhaps the first succesfull propoganda, and as a contrast to "ICELAND".
When you approach the SE shores of Iceland, the first things you see is the glacial peaks. (I confirm this from my sailor experiences).
When you approach the southern peaks of Greenland, you will have a very nice contast, - the lowland (in summer) is VERY green, and increased by the glacial background.
The real estate call was...Greenland. It was another free colony, and none would guess how far it was to go.
. . .
BRB

Dinner

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by MORAY37
Of course it hasn't left the globe...BUT IT HAS LEFT A GEOGRAPHICAL REGION.  (where it once fell, but now, due to transpiration and the shift in weather patterns, IT DOES NOT)  

Inititially, water will be redistibuted, and models are predicting, at least in the United States, that you better live on the west coast, or you're gonna be losing out on the H20.  (those BIG mountains in the west, the rockies, BLOCK moisture)

1.  Okay, so it has left a geographical region.  My argument was that (I'll capitalize it to use your emphasis technique) GLOBAL rainfall would tend to rise to balance increased GLOBAL evaporation in a warmer GLOBAL climate.

So, you agree with me on that point.... thanks.

2. "Chemistry wise, it's the same thing. Physical state is the only difference."  

Really? I was not writing a scientific paper, I was talking off the cuff and used a colloquial term, differentiating state by calling the liquid state water and using another term for solid precip.   Once again, I humbly apologize for making such a horrendous faux pas.

3. I notice you do not argue the CO2 quadrupled point.  This was not just an error in terms.

4. Mechanical engineers do not design bridges; so when one falls down do not contact me, contact a civil engineer.  Mechanical engineers design machinery, mechanical systems, we deal with combustion and heat transfer, ...  the old joke is that mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets.

[wrag]

Oh my global warming is sinking and island?????

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/12/08/island-shrinking-by-global-warming-but-for-over-100-years/

sorta?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
As well as the winds will be hotter once over the bumps
Even hotter...

Name 3 things....................... ..........

[lazs2]

angus.. did you read the links or watch the vid?   And.. are you saying that greenland is greener today than at the time of the vikings?

lazs

[Terror]

Skeptical Scientists Urge World To ‘Have the Courage to Do Nothing' At UN Conference

Seems more and more people (and scientists) are realizing MMGW is a farce and GW is natural.

T

[lazs2]

Yep.. the tide is turning...

"This is the most lavish conference I have ever been to, but I am only a scientist and I actually only go to the science conferences," Evans said, noting the luxury of the tropical resort. (Note: An analysis by  Bloomberg News on December 6 found:  "Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year."

and...

http://science-sepp.blogspot.com/2007/12/press-release-dec-10-2007.html

This peer reviewed paper concludes that...  the math does not add up.. the co2 math and the models don't work.

The blowhard priests of MMGW are on the run... they need to get their greedy hands on more power and more of our money quick.. before the whole house of cards falls apart.  their "peace prizes" and "conferences" and "documentaries" are all circus and medicine show.   They are huge gala events with lots of movie stars and media hacks all designed to hide the fact that... they have no science.

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
Yep.. the tide is turning...

"This is the most lavish conference I have ever been to, but I am only a scientist and I actually only go to the science conferences," Evans said, noting the luxury of the tropical resort. (Note: An analysis by  Bloomberg News on December 6 found:  "Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year."

and...

http://science-sepp.blogspot.com/2007/12/press-release-dec-10-2007.html

This peer reviewed paper concludes that...  the math does not add up.. the co2 math and the models don't work.

The blowhard priests of MMGW are on the run... they need to get their greedy hands on more power and more of our money quick.. before the whole house of cards falls apart.  their "peace prizes" and "conferences" and "documentaries" are all circus and medicine show.   They are huge gala events with lots of movie stars and media hacks all designed to hide the fact that... they have no science.

lazs

That's Hilarious....you post an article by S. Fred Singer?

S. Fred Singer
Tobacco Industry Contractor
In 1994, Singer was Chief Reviewer of the report Science, economics, and environmental policy: a critical examination published by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI). This was all part of an attack on EPA regulation on environmental tobacco smoke funded by the Tobacco Institute. [6] At that time, Mr. Singer was a Senior Fellow with AdTI. [7]

"The report's principal reviewer, Dr Fred Singer, was involved with the International Center for a Scientific Ecology, a group that was considered important in Philip Morris' plans to create a group in Europe similar to The Advancement for Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), as discussed by Ong and Glantz. He was also on a tobacco industry list of people who could write op-ed pieces on "junk science," defending the industry's views.39" [8]

In 1995, as President of the Science and Environmental Policy Project (a think tank based in Fairfax, Virginia) S. Fred Singer was involved in launching a publicity campaign about "The Top 5 Environmental Myths of 1995," a list that included the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's conclusion that secondhand tobacco smoke is a human carcinogen. Shandwick, a public relations agency working for British American Tobacco, pitched the "Top 5 Myths" list idea to Singer to minimize the appearance of tobacco industry involvement in orchestrating criticism of the EPA. The "Top 5 Environmental Myths" list packaged EPA's secondhand smoke ruling with other topics like global warming and radon gas, to help minimize the appearance of tobacco industry involvement in the effort. According to a 1996 BAT memo describing the arrangement, Singer agreed to an "aggressive media interview schedule" organized by Shandwick to help publicize his criticism of EPA's conclusions.[9]

[edit]Oil Industry Contractor
In a September 24, 1993, sworn affidavit, Dr. Singer admitted to doing climate change research on behalf of oil companies, such as Exxon, Texaco, Arco, Shell and the American Gas Association. [10]

However, on February 12, 2001, Singer wrote a letter to The Washington Post "in which he denied receiving any oil company money in the previous 20 years when he had consulted for the oil industry.



You sir, will listen to anyone you agree with.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by Terror
Skeptical Scientists Urge World To ‘Have the Courage to Do Nothing' At UN Conference

Seems more and more people (and scientists) are realizing MMGW is a farce and GW is natural.

T

Man, it's just funny.  You guys really should check out your sources, also know as WHO is saying WHAT....This is the Bio of one Dr. David Evans, who is quoted in your article.   A real genius in climatology, at least when it comes to making wool.

 Profile - Person    
 
Dr David Evans, investigating biopolymer molecular structure of fibres.
Photo by: Ms Bea LipsonDr David Evans: probing the fundamental science of wool
Dr David Evans investigates the chemical properties of natural fibres to improve the quality and versatility of apparel and other wool and cotton products.
Current activities
Background  
Sportwool™
Surface lipids
New technologies
Dr Evans is a Principal Research Scientist with CSIRO Textile & Fibre Technology, based at Belmont, Geelong, Victoria.

Current activities
Dr Evans is currently the Research Capability Leader of a new Fibrous Bio-polymer Science research team with expertise in relating biopolymer molecular structure to fibre properties.

This team will focus on developing new proteinaceous fibres with commercially acceptable properties as well as new dyeing, bleaching and shrink proofing processes for natural fibres.

Background
Advances in wool and cotton processing technology and the creation of new products have often relied on fundamental scientific knowledge of the chemistry and surface properties of the fibres. Dr Evans has researched these topics at CSIRO Textile and Fibre Technology for more than 30 years.

An expert in protein chemistry, Dr Evans leads many of CSIRO’s fundamental science initiatives. He has contributed new knowledge leading to commercial advances in fields such as scouring, wrinkling, dyeing, setting, stain resistance and easy care and quick-dry Merino.

Sportwool™
Dr Evans was a member of the Sportwool™ development team. He worked on improving the sweat transport (‘wicking’) in the twin layer wool/synthetic fabric of Sportwool™ that improves comfort during athletic and sporting activity by drawing sweat away from the skin to the outside of the garment.

More recently Dr Evans played a role in developing a twin layer cotton fabric that employs the same moisture transport idea as is used in Sportwool™.

Dr Evans hopes to offer wool processors more ecologically acceptable fibre treatments, to overcome restrictions on the use of chlorine.Surface lipids
Dr Evans contributed to the discovery that lipids are part of the surface structure of wool fibres. The presence of these lipids, which are attached to proteins, complicates the application of surface modifying treatments.

Harsh chemical reagents, such as chlorine, are required to change the surface properties. 'If we knew more about the structure of the proteins we might be able to modify the surface properties with more benign reagents,' says Dr Evans. This is the goal of one of his current projects on the surface proteins of wool.

New technologies
Other wool science projects are harnessing developments in materials science. Of particular interest is the use of nanotechnology and plasma technology to modify the surface of the wool fibre to produce fabrics that are easier to care for, softer, or can be used in medical and security applications.

Another line of research is investigating whether genetic manipulation of sheep can be used to modify the structure and surface of the wool fibres to enhance coloration, easy care and softness properties

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by Terror
Skeptical Scientists Urge World To ‘Have the Courage to Do Nothing' At UN Conference

Seems more and more people (and scientists) are realizing MMGW is a farce and GW is natural.

T

And then there's Lord Monckton..the policy advisor to to a lobbying institute.  Please find me real sources, guys.  It's just too dumbfounding that you post the first thing you find, without even a cursory background check.  Where are his climate credentials, exactly?



Lord Christopher Monckton
Chief Policy Advisor
Science and Public Policy Institute

Lord Christopher Monckton, Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, is chief policy advisor to the Science and Public Policy Institute.

The eldest son of the 2nd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, Monckton was educated at Harrow School, Churchill College, Cambridge and University College, Cardiff. He joined the Yorkshire Post in 1974 and then worked as a press officer at the Conservative Central Office from 1977-79.

In 1979, he became the editor of the Catholic newspaper, The Universe, and then a managing editor of The Sunday Telegraph’s Magazine in 1981. In 1982 he returned to the Conservative offices again, this time as UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s policy advisor, where he served from 1982 to 1986.

While at 10 Downing Street, Lord Monckton gave policy advice on technical issues such as warship hydrodynamics (his work led to his appointment as the youngest Trustee of the Hales Trophy for the Blue Riband of the Atlantic), psephological modeling (predicting the result of the 1983 General Election to within one seat), embryological research, hydrogeology (leading to the award of major financial assistance to a Commonwealth country for the construction of a very successful hydroelectric scheme), public-service investment analysis(leading to savings of tens of billions of pounds), public welfare modeling (his model of the UK tax and benefit system was, at the time, more detailed than the Treasury’s economic model, and led to a major simplification of the housing benefit system) and epidemiological analysis.

On leaving 10 Downing Street, Lord Monckton became assistant editor of the newly-formed (and now defunct) newspaper, Today. His final job in journalism was as a consulting editor of the Evening Standard from 1987 -1992.

Monckton has since been a director of his own specialist consultancy company, giving technical advice to corporations and governments. In 1999, he created the eternity puzzle, a geometric puzzle which involved tiling a dodecagon with 209 irregularly shaped polygons called polydrafters. A Ł1m prize was won after 18 months. By that time, 500,000 puzzles had been sold. A second puzzle, Eternity II, is to be launched in July 2007, with a prize of $2 million.

Monckton has been in the news in recent months due to his scepticism of global warming. In November 2006, he published in The Daily Telegraph a widely publicized article critical of the prevailing climate change opinions. After U.S. Senators Rockefeller and Snowe wrote a letter to the Chief Executive Officer of ExxonMobil asking him to stop funding scientists who reject global warming, Lord Monckton wrote a letter to the senators reminding them of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and calling on them to reverse their position or resign. In February 2007, he published an analysis and summary of the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report on climate change.

[Angus]

Singer doesn't hold water Lazs, even a layman can see that.
And Greenland greener than in the medievals...probably.
Our temp has spiked beyond what it was back then, but the full effect isn't there yet. Give it some time.

[lazs2]

so you guys don't like em?   but you agree with what he is saying tho right?

the math for Co2 doesn't add up.

you don't want to attack the science tho?  just the man?  The paper was not written by singer in any case..  he just  contributed.

"The report is published in the December 2007 issue of the International Journal of Climatology of the Royal Meteorological Society [DOI: 10.1002/joc.1651]. The authors are Prof. David H. Douglass (Univ. of Rochester), Prof. John R. Christy (Univ. of Alabama), Benjamin D. Pearson (graduate student), and Prof. S. Fred Singer (Univ. of Virginia)."

but.. it was peer reviewed.. his peers weren't moray or angus tho so maybe it wasn't a real peer reviewed paper?

and then there is this... ""Most of the people here have jobs that are very well paid and they depend on the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. They are not going to be very receptive to the idea that well actually the science has gone off in a different direction," Evans explained.  "

sooo.. if any scientist is making money off of carbon emissions idea of global warming then he can be dismissed as self serving too?

lazs

[AKH]

"A comparison of tropical temperature trends with model predictions" is being criticised for poor error analysis amongst other shortcomings.

"Tropical vertical temperature trends: A real discrepancy?" by P. W. Thorne, D. E. Parker, B. D. Santer, M. P. McCarthy, D. M. H. Sexton, M. J. Webb, J. M. Murphy, M. Collins, H. A. Titchner,1 and G. S. Jones; GRL VOL. 34, L16702, doi:10.1029/2007GL029875, 2007. Concludes that the uncertainty in the trends from the satellites is large enough that there is no inconsistency.