General Climate Discussion

[Angus]

What Wiki said:
"The tidewater glacier cycle is the typically centuries-long behavior of tidewater glaciers that consists of recurring periods of advance alternating with rapid retreat and punctuated by periods of stability. During portions of its cycle, a tidewater glacier is relatively insensitive to climate change."

And it's a high one, - like mt Blank.

Anyway, at some 10x100 km (say 1000+?) it is a midget compared to this one:D


8.100 sq km.

But that is a midget compared to this one :


The neighbour, and both shrinking. This one is about 1.71 million sq km.

[MORAY37]

I've been waiting for Holden to reply.... Apparently he's not going to rebuke me....I guess he got around to looking up what "atypical" means.  Maybe he asked his girlfriend.

  Holden

Your silence is spectacular.

[Angus]

Well, maybe he's out for data. It's hard to find anything in the USA to top the Greenland glacier though 
(you could what, paste the whole USA with 1000 feet of ice from that bulk....(wild guess))

[Holden McGroin]

I've been waiting for Holden to reply.... Apparently he's not going to rebuke me....I guess he got around to looking up what "atypical" means.  Maybe he asked his girlfriend.

  Holden

Your silence is spectacular.

Sorry Moray, I didn't mean to keep you in suspense.

And silence is lack of sound.  That equates to lack of data.  That you can infer anything from a lack of data goes against logic.

My argument was very specific.  I showed that the statement that, "The melting is however another issue...when for instance every glacier on a whole continent is shrinking...?" is really a red herring when looking at Africa and Australia, and false when looking at the other continents, as there are specific glaciers which are exceptions to that statement.

A more accurate statement would have been that the total icemass on each continent is decreasing.

If you had understood my argument, you would have known that atypical was it's cornerstone.

[GtoRA2]

Why isn't this locked? Global climate change is ALL about politics.

[Jackal1]

Yep. More than a bit difficult to discuss the scam without getting into the the politics behind it.
OUT.

[bongaroo]

I've mostly only seen people attempting to tell us it doesn't exist make it a political debate on the bbs here.  Angus and Moray seem to be sticking to scientific data.

Others links seem to come from right wing rag papers mostly.  Just my observation from casually scanning this thread for a while.

[Anaxogoras]

"My bias as a scientist is that I need to see evidence."

I think an economics/rational-decision theory perspective defeats global warming skepticism, as no amount of data will convince the deniers.  The cost of being wrong about global warming and not doing anything about it, if it happens, is catastrophic.  The cost of being wrong about global warming and doing something about it, if it doesn't happen, is low compared to possible catastrophe, and might even turn into a long-term profit.

[MORAY37]

Sorry Moray, I didn't mean to keep you in suspense.

And silence is lack of sound.  That equates to lack of data.  That you can infer anything from a lack of data goes against logic.

My argument was very specific.  I showed that the statement that, "The melting is however another issue...when for instance every glacier on a whole continent is shrinking...?" is really a red herring when looking at Africa and Australia, and false when looking at the other continents, as there are specific glaciers which are exceptions to that statement.

A more accurate statement would have been that the total icemass on each continent is decreasing.

If you had understood my argument, you would have known that atypical was it's cornerstone.

Silence equates lack of data?  Interesting.  Flawed reasoning, but interesting.  Silence generally means a lack of interpretive reasoning in deciphering data, more likely. 

I was not defending his blanket statement about glacier mass.  Using that blanket statement was incorrect, although you made it misleading in correcting Angus.  I was attacking your flawed position relating therein.  You attempted to prove his position false by using data you presumably already knew was "atypical" and a special situation.  Whether you truly knew this, I cannot speak.  The fact you misrepresented that position and attempted to use data to disprove the science behind it was misleading at best and overall in deficient in reasoning.
Whether you are attempting to claim that all glaciers are implicitly tied to local conditions for mass, is unclear...especially after you say that "a more accurate statement would have been that the total icemass on eachcontinent is decreasing". Hubbard is a calving tidewater glacier....making it atypical.  I basically figure that your entire argument is put forth just to be a love muffin.

[Angus]

Holden, just got to say that I think it is respectable to post naught rather than "whatever".
Anyway, you said:
"A more accurate statement would have been that the total icemass on each continent is decreasing."
Wouldn't it be better to say that the globe's Icemass as a whole is decreasing?
Ice goes down, SL goes up, both factors being measured. And bear in mind that on the blocks where the ice is melting, SL goes down de to landrise, so the SL measure is more of a minimum.

[Holden McGroin]

Silence equates lack of data?  Interesting.  Flawed reasoning, but interesting.  Silence generally means a lack of interpretive reasoning in deciphering data, more likely. 

Silence:  absence of any sound or noise; stillness.

No sound is the result of lack of pressure waves in the atmosphere that are interpreted by the ear.

No pressure waves means no sonic energy.  Quick count up all the data points that add up to zero!

The lack of response to one of your posts could be due to many factors:

1.  Computer crash due to electromagnetic pulse caused by:
-----a. EMP pistol I was fashioning from microwave oven parts
-----b. Small personal thermonuclear device in basement
-----c. Windmill generator went nuts
2.  Cancelling internet use due to:
-----a. Sudden change to Amish belief system
-----b. Stock Market caused fiscal problem
-----c. Decision to move to Tibet and begin guerrilla campaign against China.
3.  I was
-----a. Skiing in Chile
-----b. Diving at Truk
-----c. On a Caribbean Cruise
-----d. In the hospital due to
----------i.   A horrible automobile crash
----------ii.  Giving my left kidney to a needy child
-----e. taking ice core samples at Vostok

Any of a myriad of reasons could be possible and without any data to back up your conclusion you picked the one you wanted, just like the scientist you are.

[Hangtime]

-----c. Decision to move to Tibet and begin guerrilla campaign against China.

Say 'hi' to Mom for me. She'll be the short wrinkled up chick with the slanty eyes and no teeth.

[Angus]

Giving a bad kidney to a kid, now that's evil