Author Topic: Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent  (Read 5571 times)

Offline SkyRock

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2007, 11:11:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by T0J0
Your misunderstanding of history is of historical preportions.
Lolz, why don't you enlighten me?  I am very well versed in history by the way, it's one of the reasons I was against this war to begin with.

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline SkyRock

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2007, 11:12:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
there is a rumor going around that no US troops were killed or wounded in anwar province last week.

it can't be true, if it were true CNN and MCNBC would be headlining the story.  Wouldn't they?

Great news!  


 Turkey attacked Iraq today.  :O

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline lazs2

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2007, 11:25:26 AM »
skyrock... I guess I am saying that if you are simply telling us "I told you so"

fine.. we get it.. you are sure making a big deal of it tho so... yeah we get it.. you were against the war.   You still think that is the right way to think... I still think we would have to do it sooner or latter.

none of that matters now tho.   we are there.   stop telling us it was a mistake and start telling us what you think we should do.

Unless you can... I would say that you are admitting that we are now doing everything the best that it can be done.

quit acting like a woman and grow a pair.. we know you were against it... we are now in it... tell us the best way to end it or shut up.  If you have nothing to add or nothing constructive.. if all you want to do is justify your position of years ago...  why bother?  we all know it already.

lazs

Offline SkyRock

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2007, 11:39:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK






But arguing at this point if we should be there is not. and only hurts our troops by sending them a message that they are wrong.


I am not arguing about whether we should be there or not, I stated my belief that it was bunk from the get go.  It is bunk that we are there now.  I do not give up my right to criticise what I believe is bad policy and neither should anyone else in this country.  Vietnam was bunk, Korea was bunk, Somalia was bunk, and now IRAQ is bunk.  It is the hard reality of flawed policy, and should not be candy-coated or not be heard.  

I also believe you completely insult our troops by the line quoted above.  Anyone who joins the military knows what their job is, and they are not stupid enough to be "hurt" be the process of freedom.  One of our greatest freedoms, is the right to voice opinions, and I shall excercise that right.  Me and my children send support letters to troops and I have never and will never put down a soldier that is doing his duty, but I also will not give up my right to criticise my government!  Our soldiers might not like to hear my opinions about the war, but they are old enough and capable enough to be strong and do their duty as they are told to by their commanders.  It is offensive to the soldier for you to treat them like they are person of weak mental fiber that cannot handle criticism of their government without it affecting the way the do their job.

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline john9001

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2007, 11:40:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
Great news!  


 Turkey attacked Iraq today.  :O


now turkey attacks , where was turkey when we invaded Iraq?

Offline SkyRock

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2007, 11:42:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
now turkey attacks , where was turkey when we invaded Iraq?

Being smart!:aok

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline SkyRock

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2007, 11:51:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
tell us the best way to end it or shut up.  

lazs


Well, it's not going to be easy to get out.  I think even the greatest minds in the world would be stumped on how to make a departure under the guise of mission successful.  I would focus every once of energy to rebuilding the infrastructure, as we make our departure.   It doesn't help our legacy there to leave the Iraqi people worse off than before we got there.  Other than that, theres not much else you can do to promote democracy.  Most humans make their decisions based on results, if the Iraqi's are without power and water, then it does not look like democracy works.  :aok

By the way Lazs, I don't read much on these boards about how to get out with a victory from the hard right either.  Stay the course just doesn't cut it.

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline Yeager

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2007, 12:02:38 PM »
Im hoping the surge buys the time necessary for Iraq to stabilize.   Getting rid of rumsfeld and putting Gen. Petraeus in charge appears to be working.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline x0847Marine

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2007, 01:35:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Im hoping the surge buys the time necessary for Iraq to stabilize.   Getting rid of rumsfeld and putting Gen. Petraeus in charge appears to be working.


Check out the speech from Sheikh Abdulmalik al-Sadi, from the association of Muslim scholars in Iraq: http://heyetnet.org/en/

It's definitely arguable about who in Iraq is "the voice" of the awakening, but this dude is considered a legit leader, not a puppet.

The good news is Sunni & Shia are starting to unite to curb Iraqi Vs Iraqi violence.. and, as the McLean's article pointed out, tribal leaders are once again being paid...just as they were under Saddam, but the bad news is they are also against US occupation.

Some highlights:
"Because the target is the same, to resist the occupation and fight for Allah the Almighty and for the Country"

"Attempt to tie together the numerous ideas, give up all kinds of disagreements and forget all discords that separate the rows between the honored resistance groups. Act to spread the kindness among the groups and solve the disagreements by dialogue not by weapons."

"There are some groups feeling lonely. There should be efforts to gain their friendship by advising them to concentrate themselves on the main target of the continuing struggle, which is to expel the occupier and to hinder innocent Iraqis, women, children and elders to become killed or harmed"

"We would like to have an Islamic State to be constituted but we are not in hurry for that before the occupation forces have left our country. We want your unity to be generated first with the idea of an Islamic State."

Offline Yeager

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2007, 02:01:28 PM »
well, at least its an improvement :rolleyes:
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline lazs2

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2007, 02:06:58 PM »
well... the surge is the idea of the "right" and... it has resulted in a 70% decrease in casualties.

You can't rebuild infrastructure without security.   Who is gonna do it?   you need to get their military and police up to par and make areas safe... sorta the Abrams plan...

Read " a better war" to see what I mean.   once there is some security (they are graduating 1000 officers a year now) then civilians can rebuild the infrastructure.

even if you managed to do it at first while under fire... it would be a target for insurgents.. with no security you could not keep it up and running... you are putting the cart before the horse.

The "right" has lots of suggestions... they are buiding the police and the military and they are making areas secure and restoring the infrastructure as they can.

Would you then say that we should spend a lot more on infrastructrure and the security to see it done?  say... even more troops and more money for civilian contractors?  is that your suggestion?

lazs

Offline DREDIOCK

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2007, 04:12:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock

I also believe you completely insult our troops by the line quoted above.  Anyone who joins the military knows what their job is, and they are not stupid enough to be "hurt" be the process of freedom.  One of our greatest freedoms, is the right to voice opinions, and I shall excercise that right.  Me and my children send support letters to troops and I have never and will never put down a soldier that is doing his duty, but I also will not give up my right to criticise my government!  Our soldiers might not like to hear my opinions about the war, but they are old enough and capable enough to be strong and do their duty as they are told to by their commanders.  It is offensive to the soldier for you to treat them like they are person of weak mental fiber that cannot handle criticism of their government without it affecting the way the do their job.


Not hardly.
One of the things of greatest importance to troops, any troops is knowing they have the support of the people back home.
Not having that support hurts morale which in turn hurts their effectiveness which in turn gets some of them killed.

Tell me. in those support letters, How many times have you told them they shouldn't be there?'
And why they are there and what they are trying to do is wrong.

With friends like you, they don't need enemies.

Nobody is stopping you from being critical of your government.
But its obvious that you have become so blinded by your own hatred.
that you have become almost irresponsible in exercising that right.
And can see nothing positive out of  success of any kind.

Reread my previous post and the message I was trying to get across.
You might not like why we are there.
you might not like that we are there.
but inasmuch as we are there. And cant go anywhere until the mission is accomplished
Might as well accomplish what we went there to do.
Because that is the only path for those boys to come home



Its fine that you are critical of your government.
But its also important to recognize and reinforce the positives that happen too.
Any coach worth his whistle will tell you that.
If all you do is preach the negatives. You can only expect negatives to happen.
Troops are influenced by the same type reinforcements both positive and negative that teams do.
that's why officers give the rip roaring Georgie Patton type motivational speeches

You boo the 50 yard pass completion for a first down because you don't like the teams owners




To hear you talk. You don't sound like a patriot just mercerizing his right to be critical.
You sound more like Eore from Winnie the Pooh
"everything's wrong .Nothing can ever go right"
"We just built a fine house but it will probably fall on our heads tomorrow"
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline SkyRock

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2007, 04:43:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Not hardly.
One of the things of greatest importance to troops, any troops is knowing they have the support of the people back home.
Not having that support hurts morale which in turn hurts their effectiveness which in turn gets some of them killed.

Tell me. in those support letters, How many times have you told them they shouldn't be there?'
And why they are there and what they are trying to do is wrong.

With friends like you, they don't need enemies.

Nobody is stopping you from being critical of your government.
But its obvious that you have become so blinded by your own hatred.
that you have become almost irresponsible in exercising that right.
And can see nothing positive out of  success of any kind.

Reread my previous post and the message I was trying to get across.
You might not like why we are there.
you might not like that we are there.
but inasmuch as we are there. And cant go anywhere until the mission is accomplished
Might as well accomplish what we went there to do.
Because that is the only path for those boys to come home



Its fine that you are critical of your government.
But its also important to recognize and reinforce the positives that happen too.
Any coach worth his whistle will tell you that.
If all you do is preach the negatives. You can only expect negatives to happen.
Troops are influenced by the same type reinforcements both positive and negative that teams do.
that's why officers give the rip roaring Georgie Patton type motivational speeches

You boo the 50 yard pass completion for a first down because you don't like the teams owners




To hear you talk. You don't sound like a patriot just mercerizing his right to be critical.
You sound more like Eore from Winnie the Pooh
"everything's wrong .Nothing can ever go right"
"We just built a fine house but it will probably fall on our heads tomorrow"

Drediock, now your just spewing.  I have stated my feelings and the reasons, yet you attack my patriotism.  I am not a blind follower and never have been.   If it is a bunk deal, I will state it the way I see it.  I do not believe the true intentions of the adminstration were WMD's and we will pay for that in years to come.  We always had the moral high ground before this fiasco.  I do not wish to change your mind, just vent my beliefs in a portion of the boards made for these types of comments.

What we write in the letters are words of encouragement and support for their safe return.  Just to let them know that we care for their well being.  Nothing in the letters is political, as those thoughts and feelings are better left for other venues.

Some of us are so stuck up our political parties arse that they would say that Vietnam was the right thing to do.  I never believed Vietnam was right, just as I will never believ IRAQ was the right thing to do.  I simply believe that invading IRAQ was a complete moronic thing to do at this point in our history!  It is very simple to me that way.

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline chancevought

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Re: Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2007, 05:30:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
"BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent since the end of June, when U.S. forces completed their build-up of 30,000 extra troops to stabilize the war-torn country, the Interior Ministry said on Monday."



Source

REUTERS


The key words are" the Interior Ministry said"....

the Interior Ministry drops more lies than anyone here can count....all they release is misinformation...the truth lies in number of daily incidents and the intensity of each of these incidents, which has risen due to more powerful techniques....the number of dead Iraqi's hasn't fallen 70%

Offline Angus

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Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent
« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2007, 05:50:59 PM »
Just my cents, but I belive:

1: Motive for Invasion was crap at the time.
2: Motive would have manifested itself later when Saddam finally had WMD's
3: There were lots of Iraqi casualties under Saddam.
4: There were lots of casualties as a chain reaction of restraining Saddam (UN, - business blockages etc)
5: The world is better without him.
6: The military campaign was a stunning victory to the US/UK
7: The aftermath and lot of the logistics are a screw up.
8: The aftermath was grossly underestimated.
9: If USA leaves tattered Iraq just like that, it is like repeating Vietnam, or worse.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)