Author Topic: not changed since AH1: autoretract (Read 2373 times)

WaRLoCkL · « **Reply #30 on:** October 27, 2007, 08:00:23 AM »

Why not have a option for AUTO RETRACT FLAPS on the flight options like we do with stall limiter? I think this would solve everyones problems.

Also just some info, some planes were actually equipped with AUTO retracting flaps in real life. I know that some models of the f4u were equipped with them.

I have lost control from flaps befor but not with a spin.

What ususally happens to me is when i got 3-5 notches set in a slow looping fight on the deck at the bottom of the loop if im right at the threshold sometimes my flaps will go back up causing me not to be able to pull up enuf anymore to avoid the ground.

Widewing · « **Reply #31 on:** October 27, 2007, 08:45:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL

What ususally happens to me is when i got 3-5 notches set in a slow looping fight on the deck at the bottom of the loop if im right at the threshold sometimes my flaps will go back up causing me not to be able to pull up enuf anymore to avoid the ground.

The question begs, do you pull off power on the down side of the loop?

If not, try getting into the habit of reducing power on the down side and going back to max power as you transition the nose above the horizon. This will greatly reduce the possibility of pancaking at the bottom should the flaps retract.

My regards,

Widewing

CAP1 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:42:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
CAP just want to make sure you didn't misread me:

I'm not saying do away with blow-back entirely. I think auto retract should vary depending on the aircraft.

IE, as previously mentioned the flaps on the F4U and F6F were designed to automatically blow back up above a given airspeed, and similarly if the flap handle was left in the "down" position the flaps would deploy again as airspeed decreased -- not truly automatic combat flaps, but exploited historically by pilots for this very purpose. This is how the flaps should function in the game FOR THESE TWO AIRCRAFT (sorry Tac ).

HOWEVER, if the aircraft's flaps were NOT capable of automatically retracting in real life, then that's how they should respond in game FOR THAT PLANE ONLY: Leave them down and you risk a jam or tearing them off.

IMO that would be the ideal solution as it would FURTHER make proper flap management part of knowing your plane, rather than the arbitrary auto-retract across the plane set we have now.

hi SAXMAN,
i think i read ya right.....and i do remember reading somewhere else about the hellcat and corsair flaps too.....i believe they were actually powered by air? i'd like to see this too, but i also realize that for whatever reason, we're most likely not gonna get it....and my post wasn't a shot at you BTW,.....as you sound like you've learned to fight with them as they are in game....but was aimed at the ones who just complain about it. i'd be willing to bet that if HT changed them, then there'd be at least 2 threads complaining about why they took auto-retract away:rofl

whatcha think?

<>
john

bozon · « **Reply #33 on:** October 28, 2007, 04:44:29 AM »

I wish HTC make the flaps jam at the critical speed. Not only that, I wish that only ONE side would jam.

I despise the over usage of flaps in this game (and plenty others) and the hammering on the "flaps down" key to get them out as soon as possible. I want the guy fighting me to have his flaps stuck asymmetrically, in the fully extended position he had them, as soon as I push over into a dive. See how he likes that and how eager he will be to use them next time.

Then we will hear some real whining about the exact speed at which flaps "should" jam and that they retract too slowly making you over speed.

Saxman · « **Reply #34 on:** October 28, 2007, 10:22:54 AM »

But again, boz, you're getting into negatively affecting planes that historically DID have auto-retracting flaps. I still say base it on how the real aircraft's flaps performed if they would blow back up, have them blow back up. If they would stay down and risk a jam, have them stay down and risk a jam.

Bronk · « **Reply #35 on:** October 28, 2007, 10:43:06 AM »

Waiting for the inevitable N1K2 flap comment.

Karnak · « **Reply #36 on:** October 28, 2007, 03:18:26 PM »

Refering to the system that, by all accounts worked very well, automatically raised and lowered the N1K's flaps for combat purposes?

Bronk · « **Reply #37 on:** October 28, 2007, 03:49:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Refering to the system that, by all accounts worked very well, automatically raised and lowered the N1K's flaps for combat purposes?

Yup thats the one.

SEseph · « **Reply #38 on:** October 29, 2007, 10:48:57 PM »

It is the Job of the programmers to coddle those who can't play with pure skill. Every game has this happen. The more you coddle, more people they hope to bring in (see all the noobs floating around lately?). I've been in games where at the start, it required skill to get anything done. Heck, when I started EQ on first release, it took you atleast 6 months of dedicated play to hit level 50. I quit after a year, and started it up again when I met my exwife (she played too, don't start lol). But when I returned, it only took 3 days to reach the newly added level 65 from level 1. Hand holding at it's finest. AH will work the same way. The longer it stays out, the more the older pilots' skills will be negated by the training wheels given out. Once you see a rapid pace of more training wheels, you'll know the end is near for the game. Right now, we've hit the down hill, I just don't know how far down we are

One comment on auto retract specifics.. they let the gear rip off.. why not let us ruin our flaps after a certain point of speed and stress.. Oh wait.. coddling.

bozon · « **Reply #39 on:** October 31, 2007, 04:49:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SEseph
One comment on auto retract specifics.. they let the gear rip off.. why not let us ruin our flaps after a certain point of speed and stress.. Oh wait.. coddling.

And how exactly will you decide at what combination of speed and G causes what? There is no data to base this on and the only thing it will improve is the BBS whines. People here were going out of their wits to prove that the flaps on their fav plane could be lowered at higher speeds than indicated in the pilot manual. Of course they could and of course there was a safety margin. If HTC would choose some arbitrary numbers then people would be right to argue for other numbers.

HTC chose to stick with official data for a good reason which I perfectly understand. Don't get me wrong. I'd love it if flaps would jam which will lead to a much more conservative usage of them. Still, there is no good methodical way to do this, that I see anyhow.

Kweassa · « **Reply #40 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:53:53 PM »

That's actually a very good idea bozon. Very original.

Interesting implications, too.

Get rid of the auto-retract like they want, and then add in an uncertainty of jamming with a significant chance of the flaps being jammed in assymetric configurations... so sometimes they jam evenly, sometimes they don't, sometimes they break off, sometimes they're fine...

I like it!

Tilt · « **Reply #41 on:** October 31, 2007, 03:27:54 PM »

If HTC know of flaps that auto retracted then IMO AH would be the better to have them modelled.

If HTC know of flaps that incurred damage above speeds (whether or not such damage be a random distribution of jams or other such failures)....then IMO AH would be better to have them modelled.

There will be some ac for which HTC do not know exactly how flaps performed at excess speeds.or even what those speeds are.

There is nothing new here. There are several aspects of FM's where HTC have to apply a judgement in the absence of actual data.

However IMO AH would be better for such judgements over and above the totally false world of every ac having auto retracting flaps

Karnak · « **Reply #42 on:** October 31, 2007, 04:54:30 PM »

The problem that people who want them to break instead of retract need to solve is at what point they break.

And whatever is chosen, there will be massive whines that x was chosen when clearly y should have been.

Tac · « **Reply #43 on:** November 01, 2007, 08:47:30 AM »

There is nothing to solve.

Add a 2 second delay timer for flap rippage or auto-retract once the speed indicator hits the current retract speed mark.

In 2 seconds you are not going to increase your speed by more than 50mph unless you are in a sustained dive. In 2 seconds, if you are in a hard turn manouver, the speed will go DOWN rather than UP.

Make those 2 seconds be hard buffet shakes (to screw any aiming and tell the pilot he is riding on the threshold of the flaps).

The problem is that the flaps retract instantly in situations where the speed of the airplane is constantly fluctuating up and down by abour 30mph or so. The problem is the damn things retracting the split second you hit the retract speed marker EVEN THOUGH your speed drops well below the retract speed mark in less than a second after the flaps retract (high g turns).

What is so hard about that?

No plane is affected negatively by doing this. No plane is given an advantage over another for doing this. What it DOES do however, is FIX a big issue in the P-38 which is currently affecting its performance (and which was NOT an issue in RL).

Karnak · « **Reply #44 on:** November 01, 2007, 09:56:48 AM »

2 seconds will make no difference. People will just grant themselves an extra two seconds, then come on and whine about what happened after they went 2.1 seconds and claim that .1 seconds wouldn't make a difference like that.