BOB pilots dint do much!!!!

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Rino
Facts are, the RAF did prevent the LW from gaining air superiority without
which they could do didly about the Royal Navy's preventing an amphibious
invasion.  They got the job done, whether it stands up to your expert analysis
or not.

Don't think the original post showed the historian challenging those facts, Rino.

Hi, how's things, bro?

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Mark Luper
You are correct Vulcan. I'm aware of all that but to try to demean in any way or try to reduce the importance of what those young men did at that point in time when the need was the greatest seems a bit cheap. True, Churchill gloryfied them but in doing so it gave the common man a hero. It struck me wrong and I suppose my reaction is emotional.

Mark

I like emotion. Lets me know Im alive and feeling.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by rogerdee

He clamed that most of the pilots  envolved were porly trained ,could hardly fly straight and couldn't hit a barn door with a cow.

Have you ever tried to throw a cow? It's tough man. Really tough.

-Sik

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Sikboy
Have you ever tried to throw a cow? It's tough man. Really tough.

-Sik

However .... when they're asleep .....

(nyuk nyuk)

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

For what they were given to work with, the RAF, including all of their foreign national squadrons, acquitted themselves quite well, regardless of whatever it is someone 67 years removed from the event has to say about it.

While some might want to believe that preventing Germany from achieving air superiority had little to do with preventing an invasion, the reality is that while the British Navy might have been an incredible force, had Germany established air superiority over the Channel, the British Navy would have been hard pressed to operate there. Between German U-boats and German bombers, they'd have had a Hell of a time operating effectively, if at all.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Rino
Wow..with all these crappy soldiers, sailors and airmen the Allies fielded, it's
amazing that the Axis managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  
Go ahead..piss all over the generation that was there, after all they didn't have
your 20-20 hindsight about how it was all going to turn out.

     Facts are, the RAF did prevent the LW from gaining air superiority without
which they could do didly about the Royal Navy's preventing an amphibious
invasion.  They got the job done, whether it stands up to your expert analysis
or not.

Maybe you should try actually reading what people have posted in this thread instead of reacting to what you think was posted. Especially the original posters post. I dunno what whether this historian said the BOB pilots didn't do much or this is the original posters interpretation, like yours, which could be nothing less than emotional confusion (as opposed listening what is being said).

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Thats kinda true though isn't it? Some of the pilots were kids with 4 hours training under their belts max? The Luftwaffe actually did reasonably well fighter vs fighter in the battle. Of course the RAF did better fighter vs bomber. And the RAF had a number of factors in their favour (fuel, bailing over friendly territory etc).

Yes the RAF pilots did put in a massive effort and put their butts on the line as the last line of britains defence. But they weren't super aces or anything as such.

Agh, the pilots had still gone through flight school and had many hours of flight time. What they didn't have was much flight time in the type of a/c they had to go into combat with.

Virgil, one pass up or down the Channel by a flotilla or 2 or 3 of destroyers would have swamped the low and slow (2-4kts) unwieldy  freeboard barges of the invasion fleet making their way across at night. The evacuation of Dunkirk cost the RN 6 destroyers which were stationary, and during the day, when lost.

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
....and still no recognition to the Polish Squadrons that really got the shaft.

The polish got the ubershaft... We get in a war to liberate the poles and stop aggression by one tyrant only to deliver them into the hands of a bigger tyrant for 50+ years.

[Obie303]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
....and still no recognition to the Polish Squadrons that really got the shaft.

Isn't that the truth!!!!!

Obie

[BBBB]

Didn't you get the memo? Patriotism, is out dated. Pointing out your nations faults, looking at the mistakes that where made, rather than the end result is all the rage. Here in America it is no different. The Hollywood types would love to be able to claim they are anything other than American.

 Saying someone or a group of people are hero's is to hard to do. It is easier to point to their faults, or a countries faults. I mean hell look at the GI Joe movie. He is no longer a "Real American hero". Now he is a "Real, multi-national, hero". So rather than be labeled American, the Holly Wood types separate themselves from America as much as they can.

 The problem is, being patriotic is a counter-culture. It goes against the media. I watch the Military channel all the time, and there is always some ****** who never served a day in his life in the military, talking out there ass, as if their untrained opinion means something.

 I wouldn't get worked up over something the media, or some "historian" says. They are all talking heads, they all have opinions that they think matter. They get paid to talk about things for a living. The people in the know, get paid to do things for a living. You have to be able to separate the rock stars from the groupies. Historians, fall into the groupie category. In short, don't sweat it.

[Viking]

Originally posted by BBBB
I mean hell look at the GI Joe movie. He is no longer a "Real American hero". Now he is a "Real, multi-national, hero". So rather than be labeled American, the Holly Wood types separate themselves from America as much as they can.

Well ... in the '80s GI Joe was known in Europe and the rest of the world as ACTION FORCE - International Heroes, and even featured some Soviet heroes as the good guys against Cobra. And the last installment in the series GI Joe - Sigma Six is made in Japan in typical manga style. So I guess the only place GI Joe was a Real American Hero ... was in America.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCaoBYYj3_I

[Viking]

Ah, look at these stout Soviet heroes ... Real American Heroes? I think not!

[Angus]

The BoB is always an interesting theme, now isn't it!
What stands unmentioned here is that the mighty LW lost some 1.200 aircraft together with crew in a timeframe of just a couple of months. It was their finest. The RAF lost what 800 aircraft or so, and some 400 pilots.
This is a remarkable feat, and the LW hardly ever had so much blood drained from them (if you also include quality, and relative size) in WW2 at all!
When the thing was over, the LW could not mount anything like this against Britain in daylight. Never again.
And it drew some punch out of them when they went on about the deal with the USSR!
Then the debate, - was this what stopped an invasion of the British isles? Or was it the RN?
IMHO both. Well, the RN had been and was at the time the biggest navy in the world. So why the concern of aircraft vs the navy, especially when the Dunquerque losses were not so high...?
Here I have to slightly disagree with Milo. While the Dunquerque losses were low, RAF activity over there was quite some, with interceptions over France. Wasn't it over there were Robert-Stanford Tuck had a 5 kill day?
The Barge pulling was supposed to happen at night, with the beach landings at dawn. That gave very little time for the home fleet to engage, but some, as well as air attack and beach front issues as well. It was crucial to have absolute air superiority, only then could this even be attempted.
And where was the LW at the time where the descicion was taken to cancel the invasion?
1000+ aircraft & crew poorer, facing a  bigger RAF than they ever had before, as well as finding out that the RAF was indeed NOT only in the south. The LW who had expected to wipe out the RAF in less than a week!
The Germans tried to established air superiority and failed. They tried to bend the British as well with big bombings, and they failed. A sequence of many interesting things lead to this results, and intelligence as well as moral and politics also playd a big part. But a big part was the performance of the RAF as well as Dowding's system. It was a chessgame and the RAF won it by "pawn"

[bj229r]

Guys like these stopped the invasion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1636755.stm

[Curval]

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. - Winston Churchill