Author Topic: SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO  (Read 2632 times)

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2007, 01:19:33 PM »
Glocks are horrible guns.



That is all.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2007, 01:21:55 PM »
terror... if I hit someone with my .357 or 44 mag....   wearing body armor.... at a close enough range that I need to shoot him....  I will have all the time in the world to get any second shot I want at him while he tries to shake off the effets.

If I am going to shoot at people with body armor... I am gonna want a rifle and a new place to live.  

I am not into this fantasy fun shooting.   you take your time quickly and hit em first time... if you miss.. you take more time and hit em.  if they stay down... great.. if they don't... you shoot em again.   if they have 20 friends... you are just screwed if they don't all run away anyway... if they are on some urban jihad.. then I guess I will be regretting not getting a block and putting thousands of rounds into plates and paper as fast as a block can cycle.

otherwise.. I will be fine... just like in all the gunfights I have seen or read about... lots of spray and pray... no good... deliberate shots.. good.

suave.. I like the 38 super just fine but in all honesty...  I have not been impressed by it's accuracy... I hear the new ones that headspace on the rim are quite accurate but I really see no reason for the round.

lazs

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2007, 01:33:35 PM »
Maybe, just maybe, Sigs are more difficult for YOU and some people you know to shoot accurate and fast. I can agree with that, and find it to be a lot more honest.

For the most part, a Glock is a decent weapon of good quality. However, I find them to be both ugly as Hell and unwieldly for my own personal taste and use. My shooting/hunting partner has several Glocks, as well as a few Sigs, a couple of H&K's and various other stuff. The Glocks he likes, but less than the others. And now that he's had his hands on my Para Ordnance P-14, he's in love with the 1911 pattern. Try as I might, I cannot make myself happy with ANY of his Glock pistols. I can shoot them fairly well. But I can grab one of our P-220 Sigs, or one of my 1911 pattern pistols and it's like we were made for each other. My brother has a Taurus 45, I don't remember which model. To me, it shoots like crap, but he and his wife shoot it fairly well. I can put it down and pick up a Sig or a 1911 pattern and I can put 3 times as much lead into 20-60% less area in 1/3 the time.

To me, most, if not all of the polymer pistols, the Glock especially, do not naturally point well at all, and the feel I get from the operation of the action is incredibly annoying and distracting. A Sig or a 1911 is exactly the opposite. They both point as natural as a Colt SAA, a Ruger Blackhawk, or my Dan Wesson. And the feel I get from the action operating is perfectly natural. Of course, the 1911 is my favorite. John Moses Browning was a genius the likes of which we are not likely to see again. The 1911 is a perfect killing weapon, it is ergonomically correct, for both hands (I don't REALLY need an ambidextrous thumb safety, it's just nice). It goes INSTANTLY to the target without any conscious thought at all, and no adjustments. The Sig is a fairly close second.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


storch

  • Guest
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2007, 01:42:02 PM »
I shot a .38 super in mexico or maybe brasil it shot ok.  the reason they used that round in those places is because they are not allowed to carry a weapon chambered in a military round.  since the 9mm parabellum is the military round in most countries the civilians must have a different caliber weapon.  the .38 super is very close ballistically to the 9mm parabellum.

Offline Terror

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
      • http://walden.mo.net/~aedwards
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2007, 01:42:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
terror... if I hit someone with my .357 or 44 mag....   wearing body armor.... at a close enough range that I need to shoot him....  I will have all the time in the world to get any second shot I want at him while he tries to shake off the effets.

If I am going to shoot at people with body armor... I am gonna want a rifle and a new place to live.  
 


In the incident from my previous  post above, the shooting took place in front of the court house in Tyler, Texas.  A town of around 80,000 people.  Not a place you would think of as a hot bed of crime and violence.  The bad guy was hit several times with .45acp and didn't have to "shake off the effects".  (.45acp is no slouch, it doesn't have the muzzle energy of 357mag, but it still hits freaking hard.)  He was finally brought down by a rifle shot to the head.  

I'm not advocating "spray and pray".  I'm advocating "fast AND accurate".

T

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2007, 01:47:45 PM »
the guys who shot him were trained in your dicipline... not mine.

lazs

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2007, 01:49:57 PM »
Terror IS correct on the tactical shooting part. And no, a double tap by itself, nor even a follow up to the head, will NOT get you prosecuted for murderous intent, not by themselves. If the shooting is justified, you need only claim, honestly, that the first shot, and even second or third, did not stop the threat.

The probability of confronting an opponent with body armor is VERY slim, although the possibility does exist. However, a good double tap will at least slow the opponent down enough to allow you to assess the situation. Few people are qualified to take head shots with handguns in a high stress situation. Once the subject is somewhat incapacitated, and an assessment made, then the need for a head shot can be seen and the shot taken. But on a FULLY ambulatory and healthy target, head shots for most people are a high risk prospect at best.


The 38 Super, in a good weapon, probably a 1911 pattern is best, is a fine cartridge. It is accurate and powerful while being manageable. But yes, ammo is hard to come by, much like 10MM. I'd like to have a 38 Super 1911, and I thought about one for my wife, to justify it. If she was more dedicated, and had slightly larger hands, I'd get her one. But she's happy with her Taurus 445 in 44 Special.

Reloading ain't just for us "old" guys. It's a great, and practical hobby. A few hours a week with a relatively inexpensive set up can produce a lot fo good ammo affordably. If you shoot big stuff like I do, or you shoot a lot, or both, I don't see how reloading could be avoided, unless you have plenty of money. A budget reloading setup can pay for itself in a years worth of shooting. As brass, copper, and lead get higher, it'll take even less time.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2007, 01:52:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I shot a .38 super in mexico or maybe brasil it shot ok.  the reason they used that round in those places is because they are not allowed to carry a weapon chambered in a military round.  since the 9mm parabellum is the military round in most countries the civilians must have a different caliber weapon.  the .38 super is very close ballistically to the 9mm parabellum.


Actually, 38 Super is hotter than 9MM. A few years ago, 38 Super became very popular again because 9MM couldn't make major power factor safely for competition shooting. But 38 Super could easily. After a while, some one came up with a stretched 9MM that made major. But it was essentially a crossbreed that didn't really fit the spirit of the rules, even though it got by.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2007, 01:57:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terror
In the incident from my previous  post above, the shooting took place in front of the court house in Tyler, Texas.  A town of around 80,000 people.  Not a place you would think of as a hot bed of crime and violence.  The bad guy was hit several times with .45acp and didn't have to "shake off the effects".  (.45acp is no slouch, it doesn't have the muzzle energy of 357mag, but it still hits freaking hard.)  He was finally brought down by a rifle shot to the head.  

I'm not advocating "spray and pray".  I'm advocating "fast AND accurate".

T


Again, you're talking about a rare case, a guy with body armor on that was determined to kill people. And still, your average citizen is not going to be well trained enough to take head shots on a target that is fully ambulatory AND capable of shooting back. Yes, a highly trained soldier or LEO could, and maybe a competitive shooter. But your average concealed carry permit holder just is not going to be up to that task, and a Glock ain't gonna magically make him into Leatham, Keonig, Munden, or Miculek. And neither is a Sig or a 1911. You're fooling yourself if you think it is, and doing anyone who believes you a great disservice.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Terror

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
      • http://walden.mo.net/~aedwards
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2007, 02:05:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
the guys who shot him were trained in your dicipline... not mine.

lazs


No idea what discipline Mr Wilson studied for his firearm.  Sounds like his shots landed and were accurate, just had little effect due to the body armor.

T

Offline Terror

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
      • http://walden.mo.net/~aedwards
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2007, 02:24:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
But your average concealed carry permit holder just is not going to be up to that task, and a Glock ain't gonna magically make him into Leatham, Keonig, Munden, or Miculek. And neither is a Sig or a 1911. You're fooling yourself if you think it is, and doing anyone who believes you a great disservice.


Never said a Glock was "magically" going to make you a good shooter.  You MUST practice often and religiously to be a good, consistent shooter, no matter what firearm you choose to use.  I said, in my opinion, a Glock was easier to be fast and accurate with than a SIG.

T.

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22408
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2007, 03:42:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terror
I said, in my opinion, a Glock was easier to be fast and accurate with than a SIG.

T.
For YOU, not others.   This is where your posts on said subject are null and void.
-=Most Wanted=-

FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline Terror

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
      • http://walden.mo.net/~aedwards
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2007, 04:09:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
For YOU, not others.   This is where your posts on said subject are null and void.


I am pretty sure that *my opinion* is mine.  By your standards, every persons post on this subject, including yours, is null and void.  We are each sharing our own experiences and opinions on the subject.

I have backed up my opinion with what *I feel* is strong evidence that Glocks are superior to SIGs.  Other people have disagreed and given their own reasons/evidence.  Doesn't mean any, *including mine*, are "null and void".

T

Offline moneyguy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2007, 04:35:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terror
I am pretty sure that *my opinion* is mine.  By your standards, every persons post on this subject, including yours, is null and void.  We are each sharing our own experiences and opinions on the subject.

I have backed up my opinion with what *I feel* is strong evidence that Glocks are superior to SIGs.  Other people have disagreed and given their own reasons/evidence.  Doesn't mean any, *including mine*, are "null and void".

T


stop arguing when someone has a different opinion. you've stated yours more than enough times.

Offline Terror

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
      • http://walden.mo.net/~aedwards
SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2007, 04:48:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moneyguy
stop arguing when someone has a different opinion. you've stated yours more than enough times.


So how does a discussion happen if you cannot state a rebuttal to a persons opinion/point?  Seems thats the whole point of a discussion board.  You know, point/counterpoint, etc etc...

T