Author Topic: Scoring.ranking idea for MAs  (Read 1210 times)

Offline scottydawg

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Scoring.ranking idea for MAs
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2007, 01:57:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Please, be so kind as to point out where I said anything about "landing kills". I merely stated that there had been a previous attempt at such a scoring system and that it was found to be lacking. In point of fact, what you suggest encouraged cherry picking, gangbanging and vulching, which you say you would like to discourage.

Nothing personal, I'm just saying...been there..done that and it didn't do what you want it to do. :D


How so? And when was this done, and when did you become such an expert on the subject?

You have provided zero valid points to discredit the idea except for some blanket statements.

Offline NoBaddy

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« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2007, 02:41:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
How so? And when was this done, and when did you become such an expert on the subject?

You have provided zero valid points to discredit the idea except for some blanket statements.


Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Back in the early '90's, AW had a scoring system called "ELO". Basically, you gained and lost points based on your points relative to your opponents.


Now, what part of the above statement did you not understand? The AW I speak of was Air Warrior (great granddaddy of this game). The ELO scoring system was based on a chess scoring system, you got and lost points based on the ranking of your opponent. They system was found lacking in that it discouraged taking risks. It encouraged not taking chances.

As for the validity of my points, you can check with folks that played during that period. I know Fencer51 was there. I'm not sure if HT was playing then or not. There are a few of us still around. :)
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Offline scottydawg

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Scoring.ranking idea for MAs
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2007, 02:50:56 PM »
I played AW as well, and I don't think these ideas have anything to do with what you're talking about.

Offline NoBaddy

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Re: Scoring.ranking idea for MAs
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2007, 03:23:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
The score/rank of the enemy you shoot down factors directly into the score you receive for shooting them down, which factors into your rank.

For example, if you shoot down someone who is ranked 1000-2000, you would receive less score/points than for someone ranked 1-200.


Please explain what is different about what you suggest and what I am telling you has been previously done. The only difference is that in AW if you lost, points were deducted from your score based on your relative ranks. Sorry, not my fault if you can't see the similarities.

BTW, did you not want criticism of your idea?
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Offline CAP1

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« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2007, 04:14:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Now, what part of the above statement did you not understand? The AW I speak of was Air Warrior (great granddaddy of this game). The ELO scoring system was based on a chess scoring system, you got and lost points based on the ranking of your opponent. They system was found lacking in that it discouraged taking risks. It encouraged not taking chances.

As for the validity of my points, you can check with folks that played during that period. I know Fencer51 was there. I'm not sure if HT was playing then or not. There are a few of us still around. :)


i was there too......from the first version of AW tobe on aohell, to AW3.....but usually only flew RR european map.........which is why my learning curve is so friggin slow here........:rofl
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Offline NoBaddy

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« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2007, 04:50:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
i was there too......from the first version of AW tobe on aohell, to AW3.....but usually only flew RR european map.........which is why my learning curve is so friggin slow here........:rofl


Cap...

This was back in AW was a dos game only on GEnie.
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Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2007, 05:02:25 PM »
I got a great solution for ranking ... GET RID OF IT !!!!!!!!
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Offline pluck

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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2007, 05:13:43 PM »
score means very little in terms of a game, imho.  I wouldn't mind watching rank go away.  At the same time, I don't really care if they change it.  Obviously it would only affect those who care about rank, and honestly, I think it is nearly impossible for some of them to fly even more timidly.  Being timid, flying with a horde, seems to be the norm in the MA, has been for a long time.
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Offline NoBaddy

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« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2007, 05:13:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I got a great solution for ranking ... GET RID OF IT !!!!!!!!


No can do!!! The dweebs need some way to compare peepee length. :D
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Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2007, 07:12:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I got a great solution for ranking ... GET RID OF IT !!!!!!!!


I enjoy seeing how my stats compare to others and my own to see if I can improve them.  For me personally, I'd like to work on my K/T without fixing it by simply augering as soon  as I run out of ammo.  Also, I don't vulch runways.(2 reasons: it's boring, and I suck at it).  The stats give me something to strive for.

Certainly a person's rank has nothing to do with said person's ability.  Perhaps this can pop up as a tip every time one logs in.

The things I've seen people do and say because of rank could make a short film.(comedy)

I'll never again fly in a squad that considers rank anything different than the odor emanating from my kids' diapers.

Offline scottydawg

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Re: Re: Scoring.ranking idea for MAs
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2007, 08:30:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Please explain what is different about what you suggest and what I am telling you has been previously done. The only difference is that in AW if you lost, points were deducted from your score based on your relative ranks. Sorry, not my fault if you can't see the similarities.

BTW, did you not want criticism of your idea?


Absolutely, my apologies for getting salamanderly.

Let's start over, shall we?  If you've got the time and/or desire, please let's analyze the proposals one at a time instead of a 'been done, didn't work' blanket statement.

I would say that your caveat of the 'lost points' is a very big difference, and in this aspect would certainly create a timidity or overly careful mindset with players that cared...  After all, there is something to lose besides a positive accumulation of points.  Take that out of the equation, and I propose that we're talking about something totally different.

The system I was thinking about used comparative rank and the other conditionals below as a modifier, not a be-all, end-all to absolute scores. This modifier could be as inconsequential as 10% or as heavy-handed as 50%... it would have to shake out what worked best.  The scoring would be triggered by a confirmed kill.

Then I threw in an eny modifier to account for differing comparative plane strengths and weaknesses.  This is already done with perk points, and while eny is a rather coarse judgment of any particular plane in comparison to another, IMO it's better than nothing.

As an added bonus, I proposed a simple calculation at the time of the kill to find number of enemy planes within icon range (or another static range like 1 to 3K) versus number of friendly planes within the same range.  The purpose of this would be to detect hording or ganging and adjust the kill modifier accordingly, thereby decreasing the reward for horde-like behavior, and also reward bravery (or, if you like, suicidal desperation).  Note that this doesn't necessarily exclude cooperative gameplay at all, in large fights that are fair in numbers (i.e. say 6 nme vs 5 friendly within range at time of kill) it would have little to no effect on the score.  Just in the 5v1's would it really come into play.

The whole point of this purely mental exercise is to improve the relevance of scoring as pertains to actual skillsets that may be considered desirable and worthy of note (such as SA, ACM etc.) instead of promoting 'gamey play' and 'scorepotato tactics'.  I noticed you said that this would promote timid gameplay, but I couldn't see really what you were specifically referring to or how exactly it would.  Everyone knows the scoring system as it stands is kind of a joke, I'm just throwing out ideas on how to make it stand for something more meaningful.   No matter what, some people will always dislike scoring, but at least it could have a little relevance other than who plays the most, who's vulching shades, and who's managed to cherrypick their way to the top.

Offline bustr

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« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2007, 08:32:56 PM »
I'll never understand why most of you want to over complicate the concept of scoring killing fighters other than by the total number you survived to land each tour. Thats what we all cheer to when the auto message is generated "smallego landed 2000 kills in a freudian slip."

Is it unfair to the guys who don't have time to fly much???----YES. But on the other hand we seem to have 2 brothers who land enough kills per month to account for a full squad all by themselves while getting themselves ranked numero uno on the AH front page regularly.

Can it be gamed???---- YES. But this is a computer based game. Log files can be reviewed to see if a shades account or a pattern of shades accounts are being vulched. Or if there is a questionable pattern of collusion.

At the end of the month, if player zyx lands 1000 kills and the next highest number is player cba who landed 999, player zyx is that months fighter god ace(for what it matters to anyone). If you want to prove anything else, I seem to remember the DA is where the best of the best duelists hang out.

The MA is the silliest place to try and prove you are an olympic god of a cartoon game. Most players know from experience who the real ones are. In WW2 the aces had decals painted on their plane for every successfuly landed kill. There was no HiTech Creations keeping tabs with complicated scoring algorithims. If you had confirmation and got home alive, you got credit for a kill however you killed it.

Why not simplify the fighter air to air scoring? You kill it and land it, you get "ONE" more added to the competition for the month end silliest person in a cartoon fantasy title that seems so coveted in this game.

If a person with a limited amount of time really wants to do anything in their life, they always seem to make the necessary adjustments including the additional time to land the most kills per month in a game if thats what they really decide they want to do..

For a game thats supposed to be fun and reasonably easy for the average gamer to pick up, I've always been impressed by how arcane and immensely complicated the scoreing system is. I have to hand it to HiTech for being srewd enough to build a rubics cube into the game to keep the @nally retenative types paying their $14.95 just to pit thier wits against such a complicated monkey jug trap............... :D
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Offline scottydawg

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« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2007, 08:38:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
In WW2 score was kept by the number of confirmed kills along with you liveing. So for fighters make it the number of kills that you actually return to base and land alive each month. If you die with 20 kills, those done't go towards your end of the month score. Score whoring&timid flying will have a new meaning.



Man, you aren't kidding.  It would be cherry picker score potato heaven.  I was kind of hoping to make the game MORE enjoyable for those who aren't that kind of player, not less. :)

Quote

But still give the overview of max kills when someone goes to the pilot score page. Just make the only kills that count are the ones you lived to bring home alive. It might make it easier to tell who vulches a shades account or who dosent have a life outside of Aces High.


Not sure how that would work, care to elaborate?