Elementary education for squeakers

[Tattered]

Lol..


As young as I am, I've come to acknowledge that even though grammar and spelling are two very basic and important facets of expression, not being good at either, in most cases, only means people around you may get a little chuckle because of you; but that you can still go ahead and lead a very productive life with many achievements.


Whether that's owning and operating your own business, being a manager of a large company or even head of a corporation.

Again, with the people around you knowing that you are only human, taking both your weakness's and strengths into consideration.

Do, at least, achieve the basics in grammar. Leave the rest to spell-check and your wife

[Neubob]

That's very poetic, tattered.

However, I don't know how much reality there is in your optimism. There may well be some CEOs out there who don't know enough not to use a double negative in their formal writings, but I bet they are in the minority... As are managers and business owners who cannot string together a proper paragraph. Business plans that are written in poor english won't get the attention of venture capitalists, and for good reason. Managers that can't put together a decently-written quarterly report will get replaced--unless of course their bosses are equally ignorant.

Proper language is very basic, as you said. Failure to master such a basic thing speaks volumes about a person's overall aptitude and work ethic. In a world where competition is as intense as it is, why bother going with the guy who is competent but can't speak or write well, when you can get a guy who is both capable and coherent? It's much like personal hygiene, actually--not necessarily essential to the business at hand, but without it, you generally wouldn't get in the door... If that little chuckle you mentioned occurred during the interview, I doubt it would be much of a laughing matter for the person seeking the position.

For a native English speaker, I just don't see an excuse--especially when so many foreign-born Americans have mastery of our language.

[Bino]

Originally posted by moot
...
Math is the language of sciences, and language is paramount to any success in any work you would do in the sciences, for the reasons Ghost points out.
...

Amen!  

One thing I've seen demonstrated many times during the 20+ years I've spent in IT is that folks who cannot express themselves well in a "natural" language (e.g., English) generally do not do very well at expressing themselves in a computer language.

[moot]

Not just for the sake of a counterpoint, but because it's actualy a common trait... I'm employed right now by a construction tycoon who got there by being autodidact and armed with nothing but ambition and self-reliance.  No fancy diplomas, just a beater car with a cement spinner on the back and years of effort.  Now he can afford to tour the world every few weeks, he's gone everywhere but the poles and knows some places e.g. cambodia like the back of his hand.  
And he still makes spelling mistakes.. Like HiTech.

Bino, I've also noticed that people who easily learn new languages, or at least speak a few different ones, will learn new disciplines muc more efficiently, especialy those like chemistry and programing that rely on nomenclature a lot.  It might seem like common sense, but from what I've seen it's a definite corelation.

[Latrobe]

Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
Me, Oogly50, MstWntd and Latrobe get automatic exemption from this group.

Regards,
Subway

ya u cant lump m3 in w/ them

[Neubob]

Originally posted by moot
Not just for the sake of a counterpoint, but because it's actualy a common trait... I'm employed right now by a construction tycoon who got there by being autodidact and armed with nothing but ambition and self-reliance.  No fancy diplomas, just a beater car with a cement spinner on the back and years of effort.  Now he can afford to tour the world every few weeks, he's gone everywhere but the poles and knows some places e.g. cambodia like the back of his hand.  
And he still makes spelling mistakes.. Like HiTech.

Bino, I've also noticed that people who easily learn new languages, or at least speak a few different ones, will learn new disciplines muc more efficiently, especialy those like chemistry and programing that rely on nomenclature a lot.  It might seem like common sense, but from what I've seen it's a definite corelation.

Moot, while a certain resentment for the conventions of proper grammar may be exhibited by some self-made mavericks of the business world, I don't think that it is, nor should it be, a rule for the masses. If I were hiring an employee for a job with any more responsibility than those of a janitor, I would NOT make my decision based on mastery of the English language (unless I was hiring a lawyer). However, given a choice between two otherwise equally qualified candidates, I would choose the one who can write properly. Nothing fancy, just nothing atrocious.

Most Americans do not speak a second language. They should at the very least master their own--both in written as well as in spoken form. I learned English as a second language. I do not see why those born here cannot do the same. There is no way it can hurt... At the same time, there is no way that the inability to communicate properly can help.

Even in the world of Hip Hop, where little if any premium is placed on good grammar you will note that the richest, most successful figures (Sean Combs, Jay Z, Russell Simmons, LA Reid) KNOW how to communicate according to the laws of the language. Being 'down' and 'hip' and 'keeping it real' is something they all do, but when business comes to business, they are still the most coherent of the bunch.

[moot]

Yup, A' reckon we agree on the finer points here bob!
I wasn't apologizing for the masses' illiterate tendencies so much as pointing out the only pertinent counter-example I could think of...

There's a diametrical opposition between birdbrain intellectual couch potatoes and people who had to skip from sophisticated superfluities to brass tacks... The difference is always very obvious.  The latter's lucid and the former is not.

[Neubob]

I understand, moot.

As somebody with a bit of the entrepreneurial mindset, I was always quick to shun the establishment in favor of the creative spirit. Nevertheless, society is society, and if there's something that must be done, I figure it might as well be done well and with pride, or at least with competence.

Your writing, by the way, is a pleasure to read. Somewhat of a rarity on these boards.

[moot]

Wow, comin from you, that's appreciated
I think my english has suffered from these last years abroad, but thanks all the same.  My escape from this froggy colony is real ****in nigh, now!

[nirvana]

Originally posted by raider73
yes i'm 14 and i have horrible spelling and puncation. I'm in highschool and get c- in english. Grammar just doesnt seem like the funnest thing to learn, I'm all for science and math

If English is your first language you need to rethink your priorities.  Myself, I never use periods when I instant message and hardly ever capitalize.  That being said, I always do both when e mailing/writing on the BBS or other more formal places in which I have time to do such things (yes, periods and capitalization take too long:rolleyes: ).

Strangely, my mom writes letters to me, handwritten letters, using text messaging shorthand.  It's like a whole other language.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by raider73
yes i'm 14 and i have horrible spelling and puncation. I'm in highschool and get c- in english. Grammar just doesnt seem like the funnest thing to learn, I'm all for science and math

Actually, I think that you're what's commonly termed as 'functionally illiterate'. Sure, you can get by, but you're about as proficient at written english as a registered nurse would be at brainsurgery--somewhat but still not significantly better than somebody who is completely without skill.

I'm not saying that you need to be Shakespeare or anything like that, but unless you learn that sometimes you need to master skills you don't like, you'll end up pumping gas.

[splitatom]

i posted something like that and i have the worst time spelling anything and it has nothing to do with txting because my dad wont put it in our plan and i can get it if i pay 5 more bucks a month

[clerick]

"Me fail English? That's UNpossible!"

[clerick]

To the point, I was taking honors English credits in college and there were a number of post-secondary students in the class as well.  I was horrified at the quality, or lack there of, of the work that these students presented.  Presumably to be in the PSEO program you are achieving above high school level to enter; if they were the cream of the crop, so to speak, then I am worried.

[raider73]

thats how i type i say wut instead of what and lol. Also do alot of short words like when i say peace meaning bye for all you old guys u type it Pce and such i say nothin not nothing. And i get yelled at in class for using Gona instead of going to. but i get better grade in spanish lol B+:aok