Author Topic: What is a Militia? (Read 20657 times)

bj229r · « **Reply #480 on:** December 24, 2007, 03:29:02 PM »

I seem to remember reading that even the 'unorganized' militia/cadre is answerable to the governor

Arlo · « **Reply #481 on:** December 24, 2007, 03:32:17 PM »

Can you seem to remember the source? And all residents of a state are technically "answerable" to their governor. But they're all not automatically authorized by the governor to equip themselves with modern military hardware when they feel like.

john9001 · « **Reply #482 on:** December 24, 2007, 03:44:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Can you seem to remember the source? And all residents of a state are technically "answerable" to their governor. But they're all not automatically authorized by the governor to equip themselves with modern military hardware when they feel like.

i thought the governor and government was "answerable" to the people.

Arlo · « **Reply #483 on:** December 24, 2007, 03:46:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
i thought the governor and government was "answerable" to the people.

Representative legislation and civilized law are such a hard concepts to grasp. No ... wait .... they're not.

bj said, "I seem to remember reading that even the 'unorganized' militia/cadre is answerable to the governor"

bj is illustrating a claimed default chain of command existing between the governor and any group of hillbillies (or an individual one, for that matter)wanting to own M-60s ... as well as such authorizing the equipment. I illustrated authority given the governor to execute law in their jurisdiction as legislation by the elected representatives of the people (and yes, all of which are answerable for their acts - not unlike the POTUS) allows.

john9001 · « **Reply #484 on:** December 24, 2007, 03:53:12 PM »

is that a yes or no?

Arlo · « **Reply #485 on:** December 24, 2007, 03:57:25 PM »

Either would confuse you and apparently the detail makes you pee.

bj229r · « **Reply #486 on:** December 24, 2007, 04:12:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Representative legislation and civilized law are such a hard concepts to grasp. No ... wait .... they're not.

bj said, "I seem to remember reading that even the 'unorganized' militia/cadre is answerable to the governor"

bj is illustrating a claimed default chain of command existing between the governor and any group of hillbillies wanting to own M-60s ... as well as such authorizing the equipment. I illustrated authority given the governor to execute law in their jurisdiction as legislation by the elected representatives of the people (and yes, all of which are answerable for their acts - not unlike the POTUS) allows.

That isnt what I said--no need to do such bs trying to make a point
link

Quote

1. Such volunteers who of their own volition agree to service in conformity with regulations prescribed by the Adjutant General who are (i) citizens of the Commonwealth, (ii) at least sixteen, provided that any volunteer under the age of eighteen shall have the written consent of at least one parent or guardian, and (iii) less than sixty-five years of age may join the Virginia State Defense Force.

2. Such persons of the unorganized militia who may be drafted to fill the force structure of the Virginia State Defense Force or who may be ordered out for active duty until released from such service.

You have to swear an oath, etc--and be answerable to said oath, just like branches of military

Arlo · « **Reply #487 on:** December 24, 2007, 04:28:26 PM »

Good for Virginia.

"The officers of the Virginia State Defense Force shall be appointed by the Governor in conformity with regulations prescribed by the Adjutant General.

Enlisted members shall be enlisted and retained in conformity with regulations prescribed by the Adjutant General."

Officers are specifically appointed. Then there's the Adjutant General. Hmmmmm. Seems I just read somewhere that the Adjutant General is authorized to determine when a group of good `ol boys with military equipment no longer conform. Guess we're not at odds over that.

bj229r · « **Reply #488 on:** December 24, 2007, 04:38:10 PM »

Well the VADF and the 'unorganized' militia are 2 different things, those in the latter are STILL deployable by the governor, to be subservient to the VADF ---I'm prolly not sposed to talk about this stuff in public forum, they picky about that--they have people (the afore-mentioned officers:) ) designated for that

Arlo · « **Reply #489 on:** December 24, 2007, 04:43:20 PM »

I don't see where it's any sort of violation to discuss the publically accessable link you provided on the forum. I wouldn't fret it.

From that source:

The Code of Virginia

§ 44-4. Composition of unorganized militia.

The unorganized militia shall consist of all able-bodied persons as set out in § 44-1, except such as may be included in §§ 44-2, 44-3, and 44-54.6, and except such as may be exempted as hereinafter provided.

(1930, p. 949; Michie Code 1942, § 2673(4); 1970, c. 662; 1973, c. 401; 1984, c. 765.)

44-54.6 is what I quoted.

No exemption of such was illustrated or outlined on that page nor was a link to source for such exemption offered. It may be open-ended but it's not exemplified.

Arlo · « **Reply #490 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:04:10 PM »

Other interesting sections from the same source:

§ 44-85. Regulations and penalties.

Whenever any part of the unorganized militia is ordered out, it shall be governed by the same rules and regulations and be subject to the same penalties as the National Guard or naval militia.

(1930, p. 965; Michie Code 1942, § 2673(71).)

§ 44-89. Draft of unorganized militia.

If the unorganized militia is ordered out by draft, the Governor shall designate the persons in each county and city to make the draft, and prescribe rules and regulations for conducting the same.

(1930, p. 965; Michie Code 1942, § 2673(74).)

§ 44-107. Use for private purposes forbidden.

No officer or enlisted person shall use, except upon military duty any article of military property belonging to the United States or to the Commonwealth.

(1930, p. 969; Michie Code 1942, § 2673(92); 1958, c. 393.)

§ 44-103. Deposit in armories or headquarters for safekeeping.

All arms, equipment and ordnance stores, which shall be furnished to the several commands under the provisions of this chapter, shall be deposited in the armories or headquarters of such commands for safekeeping.

(1930, p. 968; Michie Code 1942, § 2673(88).)

§ 44-88. Incorporation into the Virginia State Defense Force.

Whenever the Governor orders out the unorganized militia or any part thereof, it shall be incorporated into the Virginia State Defense Force until relieved from service.

(1944, p. 25; Michie Suppl. 1946, § 2673(73); 1984, c. 765.)

(Most interesting. Thanks for providing.)

bj229r · « **Reply #491 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:06:48 PM »

Lol of course, none of this pertains much to the thread---its the sort of thing decided by a judges political persuasion, IMO

Arlo · « **Reply #492 on:** December 24, 2007, 05:08:15 PM »

Don't sell judges short, now. I've seen some appointees take legal precedent quite seriously. Haven't lost faith in the system, yet.

lazs2 · « **Reply #493 on:** December 25, 2007, 10:04:17 AM »

bingie and arlo.. you keep avoiding the point toad is making that the militia cause is a subordinate one and not conditional to the right.. it is one reason for the right perhaps but not conditional.. the right is of the people. it existed before the amendment and the amendment merely protects it from the government... Like all the other amendments.

You are saying that "the people" means... means what? the people so long as they belong to a militia? and the militia is anything the government says it is at any time?

Ok... then if you belong to a militia.. your right to go armed at all times shall not be infringed? if the national guard is "the people" then any member can be armed at all times?

But.. even at that.. you would have to go to the founders to see what they intended by "militia" numerous quotes here show that they did indeed mean for it to be the people.. the real people... everyone. It may be that some defenitions of "militia" are illegal and meaningless... if.. if they do not comply with the original intent.. that of the founders.. that all men are the militia.. that the militia is the people

That is what I would like to see decided along with recognizing that all rights in the bill of rights are individual rights. that "collective rights" is some made up abomination. I would like it said that the meaning of "militia" is the same as what it always was and was intended.. all of the people. being born here and being able bodied is all you need to be part of it.

And that.. as a member of this militia the only things you would ever be required to do would be to follow your concience.

lazs

john9001 · « **Reply #494 on:** December 25, 2007, 11:55:04 AM »

it would be stupid and redundant to say the 2nd amendment means "the right of the army/militia to have guns shall not be infringed".