A20 Flight Envelope in AcesHigh

[Karnak]

I never turn with the A-20s I see.  I always use my superior power and speed.

EDIT:

Even if I am flying a Spitfire MK VIII or Ki-84 I still don't turn with them.

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Karnak
Mossie has four Hispano 20mms and four .303s.  No .50s.

                    Did i say 0.50s? Yeah I did. Thanks for correcting me?

[moot]

Humble what are you smoking?!
The A20 is a big slow target.   It's dead meat vs. the mossie.

[humble]

The A-20 isnt dead meat vs anything. No question it's got easily exploitable shortcomings and alot of sheet metal but it doesnt go down very easily to anything. Most of the time if I give up the ghost quickly it's because I'm trying out something specific vs just trying to survive. I keep learning a bit more about the planes capabilities in the semi verticals and dragging a slow fight up...but at the expense of getting hammered badly while learning or when I push it to far.

The Mossie and the 110 both have a tremendous advantage in "potential E" since they dont shed stuff at 400 or so like the A-20 but IMO neither can furball with/like the A-20. The mossie is a much better B&Z platform then the A-20 and can certainly control a fight between the two...

[moot]

The 110 can turn on a dime, quickly guaranteeing a killshot almost anytime if there's 30's in the nose.  Against an A20 it's definitely an asset, IMO it makes the 110 one of the A20's predators.

The A20, though, is slow, rolls slow, doesn't loop or turn fast enough.....  It goes nowhere fast.  It's like dogfighting in a P47 loaded with ordnance.
I wasn't talking about BnZ advantages, I meant in a commited knife fight vs the mossie.  The A20 is dead meat unless you've got some trick using the dorsal turret.
The mossie is actualy a pretty mediocre E fighter.  It bleeds way too fast.

[leitwolf]

A-20 is one of the most rewarding planes to furball in.

Against someone who knows his stuff you're dead but there's enough potential victims in the MA to be humiliated by an A-20.

Yes, the A-20 rolls bad - but it's worst trait is the automatic selfdestruction beyond 350mph. It's combined roll&rudder performance and good low speed handling/turnrate will panic 90% of the MA population.

I love it

[Karnak]

A-20G is dead meat against many aircraft if their pilot is remotely competent.  F4U, Ki-84, Spitfire Mk VIII/IX/XVI, ect all hold so many cards over it that it is effectively dead meat.

moot,

Oddly, in reality the Mossie's problem on intercepts was slowing down, not maintaining energy.

[humble]

I dont think you know the A-20 very well. Mossie has no chance in a knife fight unless it lands a FQ shot early (which it certainly can). The improved FM for mossie has made it a closer fight but the A-20 is still much stabler IMO on the edge and in the obliques...

looking back over the last couple of tours i'm 13-0 vs 110(G2). 4-1 vs the mossie and the death was in an a-20. If I go back farther what it shows is 6 kills vs 2 A-20 deaths for april 9-3 for the 110G2. I was 249/187 in a-20 overall that tour and it was primary ride from what I recall...

I dont really run into the mossie anywhere near as much as the 110. When I do they are a serious threat with alt & E but not much trouble otherwise. Usually if I get killed by either its the 3rd plane in on a fight that already has me tied up or its a B&Z pass I dont evade well enough.

[humble]

Originally posted by Karnak
A-20G is dead meat against many aircraft if their pilot is remotely competent.  F4U, Ki-84, Spitfire Mk VIII/IX/XVI, ect all hold so many cards over it that it is effectively dead meat.

moot,

Oddly, in reality the Mossie's problem on intercepts was slowing down, not maintaining energy.

Alot depends on circumstance.

No question that the A-20 is inferior to any midwar or later fighter by a fairly wide margin in just about every important objective measure. At the same time it absorbs alot of damage, handles very smoothly and has excellent views thru  the front 180 + a great guns package. It's very capable of putting up a good fight vs even a top notch pilot and if the A-20 absorbs a couple of attacks it stands a good chance of getting a lick or two in itself.

If the A-20 has a bit of alt & E then its a dangerous adversary to deal with regardless of what plane your in...

[humble]

Originally posted by leitwolf
A-20 is one of the most rewarding planes to furball in.

Against someone who knows his stuff you're dead but there's enough potential victims in the MA to be humiliated by an A-20.

Yes, the A-20 rolls bad - but it's worst trait is the automatic selfdestruction beyond 350mph. It's combined roll&rudder performance and good low speed handling/turnrate will panic 90% of the MA population.

I love it

you can get the A-20 to about 430 without shedding anything...but obviously your in danger of losing stuff anythime your over about 380 under any high G load...A-20 roll rate really isnt much of an issue....if your rolling it your flying it wrong anyway IMO...

[moot]

Humble, you're wrong regarding A20 vs Mossie in a commited fight, and you won't realize this till someone's proven it to you in practice.

Karnak, I don't know anything about the Mossie besides what's to learn in AH.  The E retention difference between the real mossie and ours couldn't be just because of the flame dampers, could it?

[Karnak]

No, it was an issue because the aircraft was so clean aerodynamically.  The flame dampers don't change that, they just reduce thrust a bit.  A throttled back Mossie should decelerate pretty much the same dampers or no.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by humble
It's very capable of putting up a good fight vs even a top notch pilot and if the A-20 absorbs a couple of attacks it stands a good chance of getting a lick or two in itself.

No, no it doesn't, not if the pilot in one of the aircraft I listed is any good.  The A-20 has literally no recourse.  All of those fighters out turn, out roll and out accelerate the A-20 and have enough firepower to end it quickly.  Unless the licks are with the turret, the A-20 will never get a shot.

This is assuming co-E start, not the A-20 diving on the other fighter.

The first time I met an A-20G I was flying a C.205.  There were two of them flying in formation.  I easily dispatched both, only getting pinged up a bit on the second attack by the second A-20G's top turret.

[humble]

If you run into A-20's in formation your dealing with a bomber pilot. If/when you ever run into anyone who really can fly the A-20 you might be a bit suprised. That doesnt mean the A-20 will win, but you'll have a better fight on your hands then you think. There is no plane including the 109k, tiffie, hurricane and 9T etc that can consistantly knock the A-20 out in any single pass.

Now there is no question that any fighter can easily gain and maintain the advantage in a fight vs an A-20 and that the only way the A-20 will win is if it out flies the opposing stick in some fashion. IMO after 6+ months and 100's of sorties the A-20 is suprisingly capable and the 1st time someone runs into me they are usually somewhat suprised with what the A-20 can do. It's very rare that I ever walk away from a 1 on 1 feeling like I didnt have a reasonable chance of winning (this is vs any plane){unless I'm focused on some particular FM aspect and pooch a fight learning}. I've killed a 262, tempest, Ki-84 and pony in the same sortie (all A to A from neg initial position) and had a number of 10+ kill sorties (all A to A).

While the A-20 is far from uber its also well above "deadmeat". The planes your listing are formidable [with a topnotch stick onboard] regardless of what your flying. I've stated numerous times that the a-20 is an easy plane to kill (it is)....but its also an easy plane to get killed by....even if you think you've got it under control

[Yeager]

so the A-20 should be referred to as a Fighter/Bomber?  Is that how it is listed in game?