For those who think Illegals have made no beneficial contribution to America

[lazs2]

mexico is pretty strong at keeping people out too... they shoot people who try to enter their southern border illegally.    They don't like poor people.

lazs

[Speed55]

Originally posted by Fishu

I'm not trying to defend the illegals, but I'm just finding so many conflicts with the arguments and the system. Alot of the arguments against the illegals are a result of the system, which renders them incapable to integrate.
 

The arguments against illegals are definitely a result of the system. The system says that they are supposed to follow guidelines to become legal american citizens.
When they disreguard those guidelines, they lose any right to be accepted, and to assimilate  or be integrated into our culture.

Do i feel bad for people starving in poor countries. Yes.
Do i think that these people are desperate, and will break the known laws of the USA to try and remedy there problems. Yes
Do i feel it's my responsibility to foot the bill for these people once they break the law and enter this country. No
Do i think that the countries that they're fleeing from are responsiple for there own citizens, like we are with ours. Yes

This one i have no sympathy for though.
If your from a poor country, or even in a bad way financially here, and can barely afford food for youself or you and your spouse.  Why make babies and expect someone else to provide for them?



As far as I know, there is a set limit on the amount of legal immigrants allowed into this country.  Someone posted a video a while back where someone demostrated the strain of legal immigrants alone on the system using gum balls in a jar.  Basically saying that even with legals the system is strained, and could eventually collapse.  Then he went on to add the illegal immigrants into the equation and assured us that in the near future, at the rate they are coming in, we are basically screwed.

[alskahawk]

Its not a question the beneficial contributions of illegals. They are here illegally while others follow the rules. Both political parties are culpable. Republicans and Democrats are courting the business and Latino votes and have done nothing. They talk tough on crime while ignoring the illegal drugs coming across our border. Talk jobs while allowing corporations move to the cheaper labor or bring cheap labor into the U.S.A.  No secure border, no amnesty.
 
  The idea that we can deport 12-20 million people is wishful thinking. Deporting 1 million a year will still take 12-20 years if no more come in. Therefore the border must be fixed first. The deportation capability numbers I have heard are in the range of 100 thousand.
 The border must be secured before anything effective can be accomplished the the illegals inside our border. We don't need a fence on our southern border, we need a wall. 20 feet high, 30 feet wide heavily patrolled.
  So how do we deport 12-20 million people and not look like 1930's Germany rounding up Jews? Start with the criminal element.  
 With a secure border the discussion of amnesty can be dealt with. The remaining millions will probably have to be integrated into society. Currently we have large group of non-citizens that are in a very vulnerable state. Not only vulnerable to criminals but to anyone who wants to make a dollar on a bad situation.

 Don't tolerate double talk from our elected leader. They can do their job or get sacked!

[lazs2]

You don't have to deport anyone...  once they can no longer work they will go home.

It is not as complex as some of you would love it to be.. there are no "gray areas" it is simple and it is black and white.

the simple is... arrest the employers and when there are no jobs for criminals... the criminals who only want jobs will go home.  the criminals that will remain will be a much smaller number and much easier to deal with.

lazs

[Charon]

You don't have to deport anyone... once they can no longer work they will go home.

It is not as complex as some of you would love it to be.. there are no "gray areas" it is simple and it is black and white.

the simple is... arrest the employers and when there are no jobs for criminals... the criminals who only want jobs will go home. the criminals that will remain will be a much smaller number and much easier to deal with.

lazs

Absolutely.

A border fence is just another pork barrel project to through tax dollars at. Simple, simple solution, as Rolex and Lazs note. Take away the economic incentives, have trouble finding a place to bunk and you're left living in a country with a crappy climate in most area that doesn't speak your native language.

Charon

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Charon
Absolutely.

A border fence is just another pork barrel project to through tax dollars at. Simple, simple solution, as Rolex and Lazs note. Take away the economic incentives, have trouble finding a place to bunk and you're left living in a country with a crappy climate in most area that doesn't speak your native language.

Charon

Yep the wall was just smoke and mirror BS from the politicians who have no interest in fixing this.

Prolly for the reasons Rolex posted.

[SIG220]

Originally posted by CHECKERS
! Here is what they cost us ......

The total cost is a whooping .

$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR

This should just be considered war reparations, for our war of aggression against Mexico from 1846 to 1848.

Most of the west of our nation legally belongs to Mexico.  The land was all stolen in an act of war.  Once these states have a majority Mexican population, they can then vote to leave the union, and return to Mexico, where they rightfully belong.

Everyone else living in these states will need to then learn how to speak the Mexican national language.  California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, and parts of Kansas and Western Texas all need to be returned to Mexican rule.

SIG 220

[moot]

Yeah, sounds like a swell idea!

[Torque]

recycling the illegal alien dollar.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by SIG220
This should just be considered war reparations, for our war of aggression against Mexico from 1846 to 1848.

Most of the west of our nation legally belongs to Mexico.  The land was all stolen in an act of war.  Once these states have a majority Mexican population, they can then vote to leave the union, and return to Mexico, where they rightfully belong.

Everyone else living in these states will need to then learn how to speak the Mexican national language.  California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, and parts of Kansas and Western Texas all need to be returned to Mexican rule.

SIG 220

LMAO the most absurd arguement I've seen yet.
Probobly half the countries in the world have borders that were formed by act of war of which one was the agressor at the time.

Somehow I think the statute of limitations is up on that.
And were those international laws even in place when trhis occured?

You planning on giving back your home to one of the dozen or so tribes whom your home "legally" belongs to that was "stolen"?

[john9001]

the US paid mexico for that land, it was part of the peace treaty.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by SIG220
This should just be considered war reparations, for our war of aggression against Mexico from 1846 to 1848.

Most of the west of our nation legally belongs to Mexico.  The land was all stolen in an act of war.  Once these states have a majority Mexican population, they can then vote to leave the union, and return to Mexico, where they rightfully belong.

Everyone else living in these states will need to then learn how to speak the Mexican national language.  California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, and parts of Kansas and Western Texas all need to be returned to Mexican rule.

SIG 220

They can't even manage to fairly govern the country they have...Why should we give them more???

It's why they lost CA, AZ, NM, and all of their other claimed territory in the first place.

[lazs2]

we are like a bunch of old ladies who put out bird feeders and now all upset about all the damn birds around...  

then they say that there is no solution... when all you have to do is stop putting food in the feeders.

no citizenship unless one parent is a citizen..  no schooling for illegals.   no welfare.. no state or federal aid programs for illegals... throw the slave owner, traitor employers in prison.

end of problem.. It will go away like it never happened in less than two years.

Bring back the brasero program.   No children allowed.   they can stay with grandma.   Housing on site.

lazs

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by lazs2
no citizenship unless one parent is a citizen..  no schooling for illegals.   no welfare.. no state or federal aid programs for illegals... throw the slave owner, traitor employers in prison.

I think it would be a step in the right direction if some prosceutor got some testostrone and arrested and charged with aiding and abetting a Mayor or Governor who hands out  ID to illegals.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by lazs2
we are like a bunch of old ladies who put out bird feeders and now all upset about all the damn birds around...  

then they say that there is no solution... when all you have to do is stop putting food in the feeders.

no citizenship unless one parent is a citizen..  no schooling for illegals.   no welfare.. no state or federal aid programs for illegals... throw the slave owner, traitor employers in prison.

end of problem.. It will go away like it never happened in less than two years.

Bring back the brasero program.   No children allowed.   they can stay with grandma.   Housing on site.

lazs

It IS what's wrong, Lasz, but I'm afraid that Business coalitions' of all sizes, shapes, and bank accounts' have so thoroughly bought their way into our Gov't. that simply throwing illegal employers' in Prison isn't likely to happen. Unless another lobbying party that can raise much more money than the business coalitions' and buy back the votes (That never should have been bought in the first place, they belong to the constituents) to put this country back on the right track.