Author Topic: Nothing to see here, move along  (Read 1045 times)

Offline SteveBailey

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« on: December 07, 2007, 12:57:54 AM »
See Rule #5
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 01:10:43 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2007, 01:11:02 AM »
See Rule #5
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 01:11:12 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline sunfan1121

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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2007, 01:17:06 AM »
LOL and British cops still dont cary guns
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Offline SOB

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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2007, 01:25:34 AM »
And thank goodness everything is perfect here in the U.S., so we can take pot shots at the U.K. with a clear conscience!
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Offline Excel1

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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2007, 03:11:04 AM »
Quote
According to the comparison of international crime statistics produced by the UN's Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention, England and Wales had 9,766 crimes for every 100,000 people in the year 2000. America had 8,517, South Africa 7,997  , Germany 7,621 and Russia 2,022


bollocks.

Quote
Criminologists believe that a note of caution needs to be introduced into analysis of the data, because of the different ways in which UN member countries record crimes.


just a note of caution?  haha

a well worn troll,

and screw the un

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2007, 05:29:05 AM »
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world? Maybe the worst food, but I wonder about that article since no link to the report is offered.

The UN crime statistics do not measure muggings, so how did that get in there? Also, the statistics for 2000 are not newly published. The latest UN report lists these world rankings per capita:

Murder: US-24th, UK-46th
Robberies: UK-8th, US-11th
Assault: US-6th, UK-8th
Rape: US-9th, UK-13th

I don't think any of those rankings are something to brag about.

Offline Hurricane

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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2007, 05:30:20 AM »
Doesnt surprise me, but i would like to add a few points.

Firstly, our Government is incompetent, has been for most of the last 50 years. Thats why no one votes anymore, its just a poularity contest between morons.  Theyve made pretty much everything illegal including breathing and being a alive. (ok thats a slight exageration, but not as much you might hope!) This makes any list of crimes a very long list!

Secondly we've adopted a very odd culture of claiming for everything, you stub your toe on a cobblestone and some poor sod ends up in court. This results in an enourmous amount of claims of crimes (real and imagined) being made. People are more likely to report a crime in a country where they think they'll get some cash for it.

The government response to rising crime (and in fact to everything!) is to raise taxes, and throw more money at it.  This money doesnt actually go anywhere useful though, usually ending up in the pocket of somebody who has a job title like "health and safety officer" .  The result is a silly number of busybodies running round with clipboards getting in the way of the people trying to do their job (the cops in this case) and slowing them down with questions like "So your a police officer? So what is it you do?" to justify their own existence. These questions usually result in less police officers and a lot of paperwork. The paperwork costs more money, and has to be done by somone.  Usually the remaining police officers.
So you end up with a country where the people are being mugged, the clipboard carriers are rich, and the police are tied to their desks with a full inbox.


Maybe im just cynical. :D

my point?  well, the cops dont need guns. Well maybe a few, but theyve got enough already(and all they end up doing anyway is shootin innocents!) Its not like we have many gun totting criminals here. They just need less paperwork and "initiatives" so they can actually get out and do something useful.

edit :
btw steve?  whats wrong with gun control in the uk?  are u really suggesting that guns would have stoped any of that crime?  

For starters most, if not all of the crime your discussing in this survey had nowt to do with guns in the first place.  So Gun control works, becouse the casulaty rate would have been far higher otherwise.
Only a few people in Britain own guns, usually for hunting, farmers for pest control etc. Guns are relativly rare amongst the criminal types to.
They are available, but far more trouble than their worth.  For starters if your caught with one by the cops your in trouble, cos they'll call in an armed response unit and wont bother asking difficult questions. Secondly, an unlawful person might decide a gun could be of use to him.  If he knows you've got one he'll try and take it,  leaving you in the unenviable position of having to shoot him, or lose it and be shot yourself.


Which brings us to the big problem with guns, especially with regards to people taking the law into their own hands:

When your found with a smoking gun, standing over a dead body, and with no witness's(or confused and terrified ones) what do you think the cynical british bobby is going to think?

"but officer, he was trying to nick my wallet"
"oh really?  prove it."

And what happens if you were mistaken, and person that was "attacking" you, was mentally ill/drunk/suffering/foriegn and you didnt undertand their intentions? They need help/directions or whatever and you draw your weapon....

Its murder, simple as.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 07:20:40 AM by Hurricane »

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2007, 07:34:12 AM »
I'm gonna say yup, England is a ****e place to live.  The government is crap and have been nicknamed "Liebore" rather than "Labour".  


I'm also gonna say that gun crime in England is still extremely rare, this bollocks about us not being allowed guns has left us with no means to defend ourselves is exactly that, bollocks.  In my 34 years, I personally have never, ever, seen a firearm being carried or used by anyone committing a crime.  Oh I'm sure it happens, bank robberys, gangland killings, etc.....but your average mugger / burglar / etc does not go armed.

So rare in fact that when someone is murdered......or, for example, a police officer is shot.......it makes national news.  National.  All the papers, all the TV stations.

When was the last time a murder of a non-famous private citizen made national news in the US?



Offline RTHolmes

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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 07:45:39 AM »
Steve your implication is that gun control is the cause of high crime rates. I cant see the mechanism here, how exactly would flooding the streets with firearms help reduce crime?
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Offline Curval

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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 07:48:03 AM »
Nice troll Steve
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Offline gpwurzel

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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 08:18:51 AM »
As it happens, the handgun ban was introduced on the back of hysterical media reporting in the wake of the Dunblame tragedy. The controls were already in place, and the only people hurt by the ban were the responsible shooters. No compensation was awarded for handing in their (legally held) firearms.

Illegal arms are available - evidenced by the use in London, Manchester, Birmingham etc (all reported by the BBC/ITV/National News)

Gun crime in the UK is real - get used to it. Whilst not condoning the proliferation of handguns (i've no use for one - unless I wanted to take up target shooting), why should the responsible shooters of this country (closest chance for an olympic medal we have) be forced to go abroad to practise, receive no compensation for their firearms etc?

Would I want the police armed here - given the way they cant keep their weapons in sight at Heathrow - wouldnt trust em with water pistols. Armed response units are not too bad actually - but lack experience and require more training.


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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 09:02:41 AM »
From the FBI and Home Office, police recorded crime in the US and England and Wales, rates per 100,000 people:

Murder
US - 5.7
E&W - 1.4

Forcible Rape
US - 30.9
E&W - 26

Robbery
US - 149.4
E&W - 178

Aggravated Assault
US - 287.5
E&W - 73 (there is some difference in the categories, but the major difference is because of assaults with a weapon)

Burglary
US - 729.4
E&W - 1,172

Theft of cars
US - 398.4
E&W - 400

Overall, you are more likely to be robbed or burgled in England and Wales. You are more likely to be murdered, raped or seriously assaulted in the US.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 09:22:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RTHolmes
Steve your implication is that gun control is the cause of high crime rates. I cant see the mechanism here, how exactly would flooding the streets with firearms help reduce crime?


You should look at Florida who had one of, if not the highest, murder rates in the US. This rate went down dramatically when they began allowing their citizens to carry concealed firearms. many other US states took the hint and reduced their rates also.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 09:27:10 AM »
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Maybe the worst food, but I wonder about that article since no link to the report is offered.


...But you have to admit, Rolex, they have better beer.

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 09:37:30 AM »
Quote
You should look at Florida who had one of, if not the highest, murder rates in the US. This rate went down dramatically when they began allowing their citizens to carry concealed firearms. many other US states took the hint and reduced their rates also.


The murder rate went down across the US. One of the largest falls (if not the largest) was in New York, not exactly known as a haven of concealed carry.

And Florida is rapidly reversing the drop, since the law was changed to broaden the definition of self defence in 2005.

There were 408 murders in Florida in the first six months of 2005. The first six months of 2006 saw 518 murders, and the first six months of 2007 589.

And firearms murders increased most, with 237 in the first 6 months of 2005, rising to 487 in the first six months of 2007, so the increase is nothing to do with Dexter ;)