I'm gonna watch this closely!

[Viking]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Sorry for being away, I had something important to do.

No need to apologize. I quite understand.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You asked for somebody who recognized Chechnya, and I listed two.

I asked for two countries[/b] who officialy[/b] recogniced Chechnyan independence[/b]. You provided a deposed president and a terrorist organization.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You asked for somebody who recognized the Taliban, I gave you three.
Holden 5, Viking 0

Yeah, and I conceded that point on a previous page of this thread.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Whether I support the Taliban, Chechnya, or the present government of Bangladesh is indeed irrelevant …

Sure, but the question remains: Do you support the Chechnyans and/or Taliban? Is there a reason you won’t answer this simple question?

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You thinking Saudi Arabia is irrelevant is truely pathetic.

You actually care what their government thinks? Wow.






Now let’s tally the score shall we:

Originally posted by lazs2
the fact of the matter is that the lilly white your-0-peeans will lose.. they have lost the ability to breed in sufficient numbers to even keep up with their needs much less compete.

They really can't stop the tide.. anymore than we can stop the tide from the southern border.

lazs

Originally posted by Viking
This is a popular myth ... but a myth nonetheless. It is a classical case of statistics giving the wrong impression.

The fact is that it is only the eastern European countries that are struggling with declining birth rates, due to their continued problems with poverty and mismanagement from the Soviet era.

In western Europe the birth rates have remained fairly steady the last 10 years; most western European countries have even seen a slight increase in birthrates since 1995.

More detailed statistical material:

http://www.prb.org/pdf07/TFRTable.pdf

Viking score = 1

Originally posted by Viking
Russia is a democracy now ... and unlike another country I could mention, Russia/USSR hasn't invaded another country in more than 25 years.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Norway was in Iraq...

Originally posted by Viking
Norway never invaded Iraq.

Viking score = 2

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Support for those who did makes you clean as a whistle.

Originally posted by Viking
We were there on a UN sanctioned humanitarian mission. We sent engineers and a field hospital. But thank you for admitting that your invasion was "dirty".

Viking score = 3

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Based on a UNSC Resolution 1511 and 1483... both sponsored by the invaders.

Originally posted by Viking
And both successfully voted through by the UNSC ... including France's, Russia's and China's veto opportunities.

Unlike your invasion...

Viking score = 4

Originally posted by Viking
I'm not "pro-Russia" whatever that means. I'm just not anti-Russia like you. Even throughout the Cold War Norway and Russia remained friends. Why do you think the Soviets stopped at the Norwegian border in 1944 instead of pursuing the retreating Germans? Stalin supposedly said (and I paraphrase) "Not one Soviet soldier shall trespass on the land of Nansen".

Originally posted by john9001
huh, what Norwegian border did the russian army stop at?

Originally posted by Viking
Grense Jakobselv, the old Norwegian-Russian border ... after a short detour to Kirkenes.

Viking score = 5

Originally posted by Bodhi
Chechnya does not count?

Originally posted by Viking
Chechnya is not a country. It's just a part of Russia infested with Islamic terrorists.

Originally posted by Bodhi
You should do your research.  Chechnya was a seperate country in between the 1st and 2nd Russian Invasions.  They were even recognised as such, albeit a short time.

Originally posted by Viking
Recognized by whom? The Afghan Taliban government?

Name one country that officially recognized Chechnyan independence.

No country officially recognized Chechnyan independence.


Viking score = 6

Originally posted by Rich46yo
And there have been very good reasons why the Europeans have been silent over the genocide in Chechnya. The need Russian energy.

Originally posted by Viking
Fixed

Originally posted by AKIron
Iraqi genocide by Americans? There might be one or two on this board you didn't just lose the last scrap of credibility you had with but I kinda doubt it.

Originally posted by Bodhi
Gscholz... man... wtf are you on about.  Are you this delusional?  

If your hatred blinds you enough to lie this much, then damn... I really feel sorry for you.

Originally posted by Viking
Seems you didn't get my point: There's no more genocide in Chechnya than there is genocide in Iraq.

There is no genocide in Chechnya, nor in Iraq. Not yet at least.


Viking score = 7

Originally posted by AKIron
I'm willing to recognize the pre 9/11 Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan. When they harbored Osama they effectively declared war against the US. They have yet to sue for peace and until they do should be fought and killed wherever they are found.

Originally posted by Viking
They harbored Osama since the war with the Soviets. The 9/11 attack was planned and the terrorists trained in Afghanistan with the support of the Taliban.

If you recognize their legitimacy as a nation, then you must also recognize that they are legal combatants and that you are duty bound to treat them as such per international treaties.

Viking score = 8

Originally posted by AWMac
It was the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan.. the Soviets did not invade Taliban but the entire Nation of Afghanistan.  

Originally posted by Viking
What has that got to do with anything? And no, the USSR did not invade Afghanistan. The Afghan government requested help from the Soviets to fight the Taliban rebels. The USSR did no more invade Afghanistan than America invaded Vietnam.

Viking score = 9

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Afganistan

 

Georgia

 

Originally posted by Viking
Not the legal government of Afghanistan, recognized by the west and the UN. Only the Chechnyan terrorist allies in the Taliban.

Originally posted by Viking
I asked for a country, not some terrorist rebel organization in a country. Big difference.

Originally posted by Viking
Lol, President Gamsakhurdia died in exile in 1993. A year before the first Chechyan war.

Viking score = 10

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Bodhi writes the rules on your challenges?

Originally posted by Viking
I haven't made any rules what so ever. However I do reserve the right to dismiss any information I deem irrelevant or false. Such as calling a terrorist organization a legal government of a country. I dismiss that out of hand.

Viking score = 11

Originally posted by AWMac
This small Northern European nation was invaded by Germany in April 1940. On June 10, 1940, Norway surrendered.  

Originally posted by john9001
Norway did not surrender, they gave the Germans a welcoming party.

Originally posted by AWMac
That thought crossed my mind also...

Mac

Originally posted by Viking
Sorry I have to ruin your fun gents.

"German ships sailed up the fjord leading to Oslo, reaching the Drøbak Narrows (Drøbaksundet). In the early morning of April 9, the gunners at Oscarsborg Fortress fired on the leading ship, the Blücher, which had been illuminated by spotlights at about 0515hrs. Within two hours, the ship, unable to maneuver in the narrow fjord, was sunk with about 600-1,000 men. The now obvious threat from the fortress delayed the rest of the naval invasion group long enough for the Royal family and Parliament to be evacuated, along with the national treasury. As a result, Norway never surrendered to the Germans, leaving the Quisling government illegitimate and permitting Norway to participate as an Ally in the war, rather than as a conquered nation."

Linky

Viking score = 11

[Viking]

Originally posted by Viking
The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Except by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE.

Originally posted by Viking
Lol, yeah until 9/11 2001 they did. But being supported by a couple of terrorist-loving countries while fighting a civil war does not make you a nation. Unless of course you are willing to admit that the Taliban forces were legitimate soldiers of a nation state and thus subject to POW status when captured? No I didn't think you would. You know ... this is a strange turn of events that you people are actually trying to legitimize the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan. I think your government would strongly disagree.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Lets see... I am not a Saudi, a Pakistani, or a Emeratiy... Emmirite... somebody from the UAE, so no, they were not legitimate.  

However that does not change the fact that they were recognized by three governments at least, and that when you said, " The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.", you were wrong.

Originally posted by Viking
Well that depends on my/your point of view, but I'll concede that point.

Holden score = 1




So the result so far is:

Viking score = 11

Holden score = 1

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Unless we are playing golf, high score wins.

Indeed.

Viking score = 12  

[Ripsnort]

When you keep changing the rules of the game, you always win, Viking.

[Viking]

There are no rules (except Skuzzy's), only arguments and counterarguments.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Viking
I asked for two countries who officialy[/b] recogniced Chechnyan independence[/b]. You provided a deposed president and a terrorist organization.

but the question remains: Do you support the Chechnyans and/or Taliban? Is there a reason you won’t answer this simple question?[/b]

Did I miss something, or am I now a country?

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Lets see... I am not a Saudi, a Pakistani, or a Emeratiy... Emmirite... somebody from the UAE, so no, they were not legitimate.  

However that does not change the fact that they were recognized by three governments at least, and that when you said, " The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.", you were wrong.

Do you remember that post?  seems I did answer your question...  perhaps you should get your prescription refilled.  That ADD is kicing up again.

You asked a simple question, asking if there were governments who recognized Chechnya independance.  The President of Georgia was not deposed when he recognized.

You disqualified the Taliban, because they were not reognized.  I (and Bodhi) listed three, so you lose again.

I listed the answers, I win.

-30-

I predict you wll not accept this answer.

Guess what? I'm clairvoyant! I win again!

[Viking]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Did I miss something, or am I now a country?

Yes you obviously must have missed something. No you're not a country. It was a separate question, not part of the current discussion.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Do you remember that post?  seems I did answer your question...  

No you didn't. I didn't ask if you thought they were legitimate I asked if you supported them. Do ... you ... support ... the ... Chechnyans ... as in do you think they should be an independent nation? Do you support the Taliban?

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You asked a simple question, asking if there were governments who recognized Chechnya independance.

No I did not. I asked if there were countries who officially recognized Chechnyan independence. And you very well know this as I have repeated that over and over again, but you seem to insist on lying about it. You were right that the Taliban were recognized by three Arab nations ... of course the REST OF THE WORLD and the UN recognized the Northern Alliance as Afghanistan's legitimate government. That you chose the Taliban to represent Afghanistan must mean that you think they were/are the legitimate government ... if not you're just a lying salamander. I'm betting it's the latter case. At least I have the common decency to admit to being wrong when so proven.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The President of Georgia was not deposed when he recognized.

The president in question was deposed and even DEAD long before the Chechnyan conflict even began. You're completely full of BS.