Author Topic: USAAF Fighter Performace Data (Read 1212 times)

Widewing · « **on:** December 11, 2007, 11:11:24 PM »

I discovered a very interesting document published by the 8th Air Force in October of 1944. Being released long before Allied personnel had access to Luftwaffe aircraft, it's interesting to see how they estimated Luftwaffe fighter performance in comparison to USAAF fighters of the period. Nomenclatures such as Fw 290 and Me 209 are commonly used, probably as designators for aircraft they didn't have much knowledge of. In all likelihood, the Fw 290 referred to the 190D-9 or even the 190C. Likewise, the Me 209 probably referred to a later version of the 109, perhaps the G-10.

In addition, there is some other interesting data on US fighters. Here's some samples of the material plucked from the document.

P-38H...

P-51C...

P-51B...

Fighter penetration chart...

There's lots more, which I will post later. In the mean time, this material should make for interesting discussions.

My regards,

Widewing

Guppy35 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2007, 02:15:34 AM »

Look at the range on the 38H. Same tankage on the F and G. They could have been escorting into Germany from the start....

Interesting that the 38J range with 1 tank is greater then the 38H with two tanks.

Those outer wing tanks made a big difference. As I'm the 38G driver always running out of fuel while my 38J and L buddies keep going, I understand the difference

Krusty · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2007, 10:21:16 AM »

I didn't think P-51Cs had 6 gun layouts.

Pretty interesting to note the takeoff distances.

Kweassa · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2007, 11:12:52 AM »

Me209 and Fw209.. *snicker*

One o' those "intelligence forecast" specs, eh?

oboe · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2007, 02:29:39 PM »

Military power setting = WEP?

MachNum · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2007, 02:50:49 PM »

And look at the sustained climb rate (no zoom) on Plate V for the P51-B against the 109G.

Widewing, did the document include any information on how this data was compiled?

Viking · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2007, 02:57:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MachNum
Widewing, did the document include any information on how this data was compiled?

By wishful thinking by the looks of it.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2007, 02:58:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
Military power setting = WEP?

Military power is not WEP, more like full throttle without WEP. There was a stop on the throttle that was full throttle but not WEP. I've heard it called 'pushing it through the gate' to get to WEP. There was even a wire on some throttles that had to be broken to get to WEP if I remember right.

War Emergency Power=WEP.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2007, 02:59:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I didn't think P-51Cs had 6 gun layouts.

Pretty interesting to note the takeoff distances.

P51Cs did not have 6 guns. Gotta be for the 51D

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2007, 03:23:52 PM »

On the charts here, it appears that military power is the same as WEP. Of course the P-51B did not have any type of liquid injection into the engine, so its just a higher manifold pressure.

Krusty · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2007, 03:34:34 PM »

WEP as a term does not require any additive for the engine. It is simply a power setting that is unsafe for any long duration. Some planes use an additive to get to that higher setting, but some just upped the RPM and manifold.

Widewing · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2007, 05:31:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Me209 and Fw209.. *snicker*

One o' those "intelligence forecast" specs, eh?

The document states elsewhere that the Fw 290 was the new 190 powered by the DB603 engine. Again, this was based upon the limited intelligence coming out of Germany in 1943-44.

The charm of this document is that it provides wonderful insight into what the Allies were thinking at the time. That makes it far more valuable as a historical document than post-war analysis.

I'll post more later tonight, and I'll reveal the secret as to where you can download a copy from a US Army public server. It's a huge, 5 part document. Moreover, there's a vast amount of similar documents on the server. Probably the best kept secret among historians I know of.

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2007, 06:14:04 PM »

As promised... More material.

The 8th AF tested the P-47D against a captured Fw 190A. Here's their test results, followed by a synopsis of the P-38.

Luftwaffe fans, there's some great material in the document for you guys too. Especially as it presents you with the view of the 8th AF at the height of the air war in mid 1944. there is much insight to be gleaned.

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2007, 06:22:26 PM »

Ok gents, here's where you can download a copy of the document I've been referencing.

Go to this site and click on the link to WWII Operational Documents. Scroll down till you find another link to "A history of the VIII United States Army Air Forces Fighter Command."

When the new page opens, you will see links to the various parts of the document on the left side of the page.

Click on each, but be prepared to wait a few minutes while the PDF file downloads.

When completed, go back to the WWII Operational Documents page and check out the vast volume of documents available on the server. In addition, there is a whole section that presents obsolete Army manuals, some of them fascinating. This treasure trove of documents is of great value to historians and ordinary history buffs alike. There's much to see and read.

Have fun.

My regards,

Widewing

dtango · « **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2007, 06:26:15 PM »

Nice find WW

! I've been on the US Army War College servers to look up other things but never thought of searching for USAAF stuff there - duh!

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs