Females in combat zones/jobs. Good Idea? Bad idea?

[bozon]

Technically, there is nothing in women themselves that prevents women from participating in combat. Quite a few are physically capable of withstanding the conditions.

The men are the problem. Like it or not, the women in the outfit affect the men and no, this is not a matter of education but a matter of biology. Men behave differently around women and usually not for the better in army unit sense. They tend to be come more aggressive and competitive toward other men in their unit which is not a good thing. It happens because men have balls and hormones and are biologically programed to behave like that.

In my army service I've seen a few occasions in which a singular woman is capable of being accepted into a group of men as "one of the guys" and such behavior is avoided. I've seen many more cases of the opposite. If there is a large number of women, the change of behavior in the men is almost guarantied.

Men are primitive creatures that think with their balls. No amount of education will erase that. It is better to accept this male limitation and work around it, than to ignore it for the sake of some "equal opportunity" agenda.

[Tigeress]

Women kill men in war.

Nothing anyone says can alter that fact.

TIGERESS

from--> http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/tayvie.html

excerpt:

Vietnamese Women at War
Fighting for Ho Chi Minh and the Revolution



For as long as the Vietnamese people fought against foreign enemies, women were a vital part of that struggle. The victory over the French at Dien Bien Phu is said to have involved hundreds of thousands of women, and many of the names in Viet Cong unit rosters were female. These women were living out the ancient saying of their country, "When war comes, even women have to fight."

Women from Hanoi and the countryside fought alongside their male counterparts in both the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese military in their wars against the South Vietnamese government and its French and American allies from 1945 to 1975. Sandra Taylor now draws on interviews with many of these women and on an array of newly opened archives to illuminate their motivations, experiences, and contributions--presenting not cold facts but real people.

These women were the wives, mothers, daughters, and sisters of men recruited into military service; and because the war lasted so long, women from more than one generation of the same family often participated in the struggle. Some learned to fire weapons and lay traps, or to serve as village patrol guards and intelligence agents; others were propagandists and recruiters or helped keep the supply lines flowing.

[lazs2]

bozon hit on it..  it is the way that women affect the men in war..or.. some jobs.   It is the way the enemy treats the women it comes in contact with and how that affects the men and the people at home.  

She may consider herself a man but.. no one else does.

desperate countries will do desperate things.. we are not desperate at this time.

as for police.. can't get the full article but women police are attacked when the emotions run high.. or the attacker is too loaded to realize that a male policeman will just come and arrest him no matter how many of the women officers he beats up,...

"Cara E. Rabe-Hemp

Illinois State University, Normal

Amie M. Schuck

University of Illinois at Chicago

Violence against officers is an important topic not only because of the negative consequences to the officer but also because it is at the core of one of the most debated issues regarding female officers—their ability to deal with hostile citizens. Using arrest data from several metropolitan departments, the research compared gender differences in assaults on officers, as well as situational and individual officer factors related to the assaults. The findings suggest that when compared to male officers, female officers are at an increased risk for being assaulted in family conflict situations. Furthermore, the results suggest that female officers are at the greatest risk of being assaulted in family conflict situations when the assailant is impaired. More research is needed to better understand why family conflict situations and intoxicated assailants are especially dangerous for female officers and what policies can be instituted to mitigate this potentially threatening situation.

Key Words: assaults • domestic violence • gender • police victimization • policing"


don't get me started on the lowered standards for firemen....  

Soooo.. no, women doing mens jobs is not a great idea unless you are desperate.   It works poorly and it diminishes us as a people.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
bozon hit on it..  it is the way that women affect the men in war..or.. some jobs.   It is the way the enemy treats the women it comes in contact with and how that affects the men and the people at home.  

She may consider herself a man but.. no one else does.

desperate countries will do desperate things.. we are not desperate at this time.

as for police.. can't get the full article but women police are attacked when the emotions run high.. or the attacker is too loaded to realize that a male policeman will just come and arrest him no matter how many of the women officers he beats up,...

"Cara E. Rabe-Hemp

Illinois State University, Normal

Amie M. Schuck

University of Illinois at Chicago

Violence against officers is an important topic not only because of the negative consequences to the officer but also because it is at the core of one of the most debated issues regarding female officers—their ability to deal with hostile citizens. Using arrest data from several metropolitan departments, the research compared gender differences in assaults on officers, as well as situational and individual officer factors related to the assaults. The findings suggest that when compared to male officers, female officers are at an increased risk for being assaulted in family conflict situations. Furthermore, the results suggest that female officers are at the greatest risk of being assaulted in family conflict situations when the assailant is impaired. More research is needed to better understand why family conflict situations and intoxicated assailants are especially dangerous for female officers and what policies can be instituted to mitigate this potentially threatening situation.

Key Words: assaults • domestic violence • gender • police victimization • policing"


don't get me started on the lowered standards for firemen....  

Soooo.. no, women doing mens jobs is not a great idea unless you are desperate.   It works poorly and it diminishes us as a people.

lazs

Lazs,

Seems to me, many female firefighters are EMTs, not ladderwomen.

You can buy a Female Firefighters calander and donate to America's Female Firefighters at their website.

http://www.americasfemalefirefighters.com/

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

and not one of em can carry a 175 realistic dummy up the five flights of stairs that was the original requirement.

Yep..  fun to look at.   I wonder if it is sexual harrassment to look at the calender tho?    I bet it is not workplace safe in todays mixed gender workplace where even a smile can cause a lawsuit.  

I think your site proves my point exactly.. those women want it both ways.. they want men to lust after em as sexual objects when they want it but to be neutered harem guards the rest of the time.   They want it both ways..  that is why it doesn't work.

Anyone who thinks it does work has just never seen how good it can be without the tension.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
and not one of em can carry a 175 realistic dummy up the five flights of stairs that was the original requirement.

Yep..  fun to look at.   I wonder if it is sexual harrassment to look at the calender tho?    I bet it is not workplace safe in todays mixed gender workplace where even a smile can cause a lawsuit.  

I think your site proves my point exactly.. those women want it both ways.. they want men to lust after em as sexual objects when they want it but to be neutered harem guards the rest of the time.   They want it both ways..  that is why it doesn't work.

Anyone who thinks it does work has just never seen how good it can be without the tension.

lazs

Don't men want it both ways?

Why should women have to be de-sexed and cease being attractive and female in order to fit in?

Thinking of women as sex objects is man's doing.

Women are a lot more than just eye candy for horny boys, Lazs, contrary to popular locker room guy myth.

Police women are in far more danger of ill treatment from their male peers than perps on the streets.

Now isn't that a fine commentary on the state of affairs...

Ok, now blame the women for the behavior of men, dear.

Thank goodness there are also well mannered police officers who treat their sister LEOs with respect, officer to officer.

lazs, your anti-female rants typifies the sexual warfare going on by men against women who dare invade their so-called guy space.

Time to grow up...

TIGERESS

Edit: Ruling: Female cops treated unfairly--> http://www.timesunion.com/ASPStories/Story.asp?StoryID=647517&Category=REGION&LinkFrom=RSS

Ruling: Female cops treated unfairly
Saratoga Springs department criticized for inadequate facilities for women on staff  
 
By DENNIS YUSKO, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Saturday, December 15, 2007
 
SARATOGA SPRINGS -- City police headquarters provides unequal and discriminatory facilities for its 15 female officers and dispatchers, the state Division of Human Rights found this week.
After an investigation, Michael Kendall, regional director of the Division of Human Rights, said probable cause exists that the city "has engaged in or is engaging in" unlawful discrimination of its police department's female workers.

   
The ruling came in response to an October complaint by dispatcher Suzanne Green and other female members of the force, who contended the station's limited space in the basement of City Hall offered them inadequate locker room and restroom facilities.

The ruling sets up a public hearing before an administrative law judge in Albany within the next 60 days. The judge will determine whether discrimination occurred and whether remedies are needed.

The judge could award monetary damages and order the city to end the discriminatory practices, said Tom Shanahan, deputy commissioner for the Division of Human Rights.

[KgB]

TIGERESS you have to admit that there are some jobs that women cant do as well as men,right?

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by KgB
TIGERESS you have to admit that there are some jobs that women cant do as well as men,right?

Yup

We are utter failures at sperm donating hahahahaha

Just kidding dear.

Yes I agree there are things men are better equiped for.

TIGERESS

[MotorOil1]

Originally posted by Charon
My thought is that if a female soldier could life my, say, 200 lb bulk over her shoulder and haul me off the battle field or pull me out of a burning APC I would have no problem with that. Otherwise, she is endangering my life for a political statement. Combat is still about kill or be killed, and physicality still plays a notable role in that in many MOS'

As laser said, if she can perform the task without adjustment or accommodation for  he physical abilities then fine. I was never a recruitment poster bulk of muscle as a soldier, but I could perform my combat arms task to standards.

Charon

That hit the nail on the head.

I'm a reservist in my spare time and there are several women I don't have a problem serving with.  There are a few I do.  That being said, I can think of several men I have a problem serving with for the exact same reason.  When pulling your 200lb buddy out of trouble, gender doesn't matter.  You just have to have the guts and strength to do it.

As far as being raped or whatever.  The women know the risks.  Besides how many men throughout history have been castrated, tortured and killed while in captivity ( I can think of worse but I don't want to get too graphic).  Or maybe these things aren't as bad as a woman being sexually assaulted?

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by MotorOil1
That hit the nail on the head.

I'm a reservist in my spare time and there are several women I don't have a problem serving with.  There are a few I do.  That being said, I can think of several men I have a problem serving with for the exact same reason.  When pulling your 200lb buddy out of trouble, gender doesn't matter.  You just have to have the guts and strength to do it.

As far as being raped or whatever.  The women know the risks.  Besides how many men throughout history have been castrated, tortured and killed while in captivity ( I can think of worse but I don't want to get too graphic).  Or maybe these things aren't as bad as a woman being sexually assaulted?

Women are not assigned to the Infantry.

Risk of being sexually assaulted and raped is greater from a US servicewoman's male peer than the risk of capture thus rape by the enemy.

That's a hell of a commentary on the respect between soldiers of the same Army, huh? Real squealing Heros  

TIGERESS

[Yknurd]

The females I want in the combat zones are zombie females.

Or females with freakin' lasers on their heads.

Either/or...you pick.

[Benny Moore]

Tigress, I'm curious about how you would respond to this.

Originally posted by bozon
Technically, there is nothing in women themselves that prevents women from participating in combat. Quite a few are physically capable of withstanding the conditions.

The men are the problem. Like it or not, the women in the outfit affect the men and no, this is not a matter of education but a matter of biology. Men behave differently around women and usually not for the better in army unit sense. They tend to be come more aggressive and competitive toward other men in their unit which is not a good thing. It happens because men have balls and hormones and are biologically programed to behave like that.

In my army service I've seen a few occasions in which a singular woman is capable of being accepted into a group of men as "one of the guys" and such behavior is avoided. I've seen many more cases of the opposite. If there is a large number of women, the change of behavior in the men is almost guarantied.

Men are primitive creatures that think with their balls. No amount of education will erase that. It is better to accept this male limitation and work around it, than to ignore it for the sake of some "equal opportunity" agenda.

[MadMan]

I have no problem with women in combat.  I trained with several that I would rather have had on the front lines with me than the men that were there.

In my opinion, in our great military, there should be no distinction between women and men just liek there should be no racial distinction.  I figure everyone should have the same physical and mental standards and those should determine whether you are fit for combat duty.  Your results should go before the board with no name/photo attached.  I had several of the women who could pop out more push-ups and sit-ups than I could.  Does that mean I was less fit for a comabt role since I preformed poorer than my fellow female colleagues?  Nope, I was approved for combat no questions asked because I met all the required standards for it.


additional commentary below

Here's a ringer for you...  In my opinion taking into consideration how wars are fought now days.  A woman in a front line combat infantry unit would be less prone to be taken POW than one who drives in a logistical convoy.  The front line unit would be prepared for combat.  A logitics convoy, not so much...  trust me, you'd be surprised how non-'combat effective' someone who rides around in a truck is, what would surprise you even more is if they could locate the M-16/M-4, the ammo, and the gun actually function.  Given how long the logistic convoys would have to travel, adn the fact that they are very lacking proper escorts at times... they are a much easier target and would provide more opportunity to be taken POW than a member of a front lien infantry unit.

[Tigeress]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bozon
Technically, there is nothing in women themselves that prevents women from participating in combat. Quite a few are physically capable of withstanding the conditions.

The men are the problem. Like it or not, the women in the outfit affect the men and no, this is not a matter of education but a matter of biology. Men behave differently around women and usually not for the better in army unit sense. They tend to be come more aggressive and competitive toward other men in their unit which is not a good thing. It happens because men have balls and hormones and are biologically programed to behave like that.

In my army service I've seen a few occasions in which a singular woman is capable of being accepted into a group of men as "one of the guys" and such behavior is avoided. I've seen many more cases of the opposite. If there is a large number of women, the change of behavior in the men is almost guarantied.

Men are primitive creatures that think with their balls. No amount of education will erase that. It is better to accept this male limitation and work around it, than to ignore it for the sake of some "equal opportunity" agenda.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Tigress, I'm curious about how you would respond to this.

Hi Benny,

Using biology as an excuse for disrespect and ill treatment and in cases felonious sexual assault and rape won’t cut it as a defense in a civil or criminal court of law or a Military Courts Marshal.

It's a good way to get frag’ed or pushed off a building or bridge by the female soldier's male peers as well in extreme cases.

Some men will not tolerate continued "biologically induced" ill treatment by a rotten apple of fellow soldiers who happen to be female.

TIGERESS

[Benny Moore]

I don't think that's at all what he was trying to say.  I didn't see him excusing anything, especially not sexual assault.  What I saw was a good reason why men and women should not come together in the combat zone.

Originally posted by bozon
Men are primitive creatures that think with their balls. No amount of education will erase that. It is better to accept this male limitation and work around it, than to ignore it for the sake of some "equal opportunity" agenda.