Michell Report

[Saxman]

The full report is posted in PDF Format on MLB.com. Albert Pujols is not mentioned, and as expected, Ankiel is listed ONLY in regards to the already-known HGH issue.

This is exactly why you shouldn't trust a list of out-of-context names.

[Jebus]

CNBC is standing by the list that was presented before the michell report was release.  

If that is the case maybe they know something we dont.  I think it is strange that they stick by it instead of appologizing.

[Hap]

1) unjuice the ball
2) raise the pitcher's mound
3) fire ALL the juciers -- ban them for life

Then maybe we can watch some baseball.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Hap
1) unjuice the ball
2) raise the pitcher's mound
3) fire ALL the juciers -- ban them for life

Then maybe we can watch some baseball.

\

what do you want, go back to "1-0" games? The reason MLB juiced the ball, lowered the mound, made the strike zone smaller and moved the fence in closer was to try to make a boring game more exciting by raising the scores and having more home runs.

In what other sport do you have "bench clearing brawls"? That's done to wake up the fans.

i still think it's boring.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by john9001
\

what do you want, go back to "1-0" games? The reason MLB juiced the ball, lowered the mound, made the strike zone smaller and moved the fence in closer was to try to make a boring game more exciting by raising the scores and having more home runs.

In what other sport do you have "bench clearing brawls"? That's done to wake up the fans.

i still think it's boring.

Actually, before the "changes", there were not many 1-0 games.   Also the pitchers routinely went 30+ Complete Games a season.  Not to mention the HR's, Triples and Doubles.  

Bud Selig is an owner.   He has NO BUSINESS being the "Commissioner of MLB".     He's a piss ant figurehead for the owners.

[Shuffler]

They should all be banned from baseball. All in the Hall of Fame should be removed. No one likes a cheater. If they do not remove the cheaters from the Hall of Fame then they do a disservice to all that truely belong there.

[Hajo]

I personaly like to see a pitchers duel and a low scoring baseball game.

I believe they lowered the mound in 1969 because pitching at that time had overcome the hitting ability of the majority of the major league players.

Mound heigth had been approximately the same for years.

Also......those who like the slugfest most often don't know how to watch the game.  What to watch during the game is usually lost to those who dislike it.  Strategy.....manufacture runs (the way they used to up until the late 70s.)  Positioning of players by how the pitcher is going to pitch to the batter.  Infielders seeing what the catcher has called and are leaning one way or another.

If you like the bandbox stadiums we have now.  The juiced ball and players.
Not to mention the Fielders Gloves the size of a bushell basket.

Maybe you should consider following Roller Derby.

[Saxman]

The mound was lowered by Bob Gibson. 1.12 ERA in I think 1968.

The BIGGEST reason to raise the mound is actually for the health of the pitchers. Arm injuries increased on the lowered mound because the pitcher has to compensate more for the lost velocity and ends up straining his arm.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Hajo
I personaly like to see a pitchers duel and a low scoring baseball game.

I believe they lowered the mound in 1969 because pitching at that time had overcome the hitting ability of the majority of the major league players.

Mound heigth had been approximately the same for years.

Also......those who like the slugfest most often don't know how to watch the game.  What to watch during the game is usually lost to those who dislike it.  Strategy.....manufacture runs (the way they used to up until the late 70s.)  Positioning of players by how the pitcher is going to pitch to the batter.  Infielders seeing what the catcher has called and are leaning one way or another.

If you like the bandbox stadiums we have now.  The juiced ball and players.
Not to mention the Fielders Gloves the size of a bushell basket.

Maybe you should consider following Roller Derby.

You're gonna have to try and make it up here and I'll take you to a Tigers/Injuns game.    I agree with you, most haven't a clue and just "rant about what they hear from ESPN".

FWIW, Ken Caminitti died in 2004.    I'm sure he's pissed he's mentioned.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Jebus
So what are your thoughts about baseball now?

Here are some of the names on the list that got leaked out:


    * Roger Clemens
    * Barry Bonds
    * Albert Pujols
    * Jason Giambi
    * Ken Caminitti
    * Albert Belle
    * Jose Canseco,
    * Ozzi Canseco
    * Aaron Boone
    * Bret Boone
    * Brady Anderson
    * Manny Alexander
    * Rick Ankiel
    * Jeff Bagwell
    * Aaron Boone
    * Rafael Bettancourt
    * Bret Boone
    * Milton Bradley
    * David Bell
    * Dante Bichette
    * Paul Byrd
    * Wil Cordero
    * Mike Cameron
    * Ramon Castro
    * Paxton Crawford
    * Wilson Delgado
    * Lenny Dykstra
    * Johnny Damon
    * Carl Everett
    * Kyle Farnsworth
    * Ryan Franklin
    * Troy Glaus
    * Rich Garces
    * Jason Grimsley
    * Juan Gonzalez
    * Eric Gagne
    * Nomar Garciaparra
    * Jeremy Giambi
    * Jose Guillen
    * Jay Gibbons
    * Juan Gonzalez
    * Clay Hensley
    * Jerry Hairston
    * Felix Heredia, Jr.
    * Darren Holmes
    * Wally Joyner
    * Darryl Kile
    * Matt Lawton
    * Raul Mondesi
    * Mark McGwire
    * Guillermo Mota
    * Robert Machado
    * Damian Moss
    * Abraham Nunez
    * Trot Nixon
    * Jose Offerman
    * Andy Pettitte
    * Mark Prior
    * Neifi Perez
    * Rafael Palmiero
    * Albert Pujols
    * Brian Roberts
    * Juan Rincon
    * John Rocker
    * Pudge Rodriguez
    * Sammy Sosa
    * Scott Sc hoenweiis
    * David Segui
    * Alex Sanchez
    * Gary Sheffield
    * Miguel Tejada
    * Julian Tavarez
    * Fernando Tatis
    * Maurice Vaughn
    * Jason Varitek
    * Ismael Valdez
    * Matt Williams
    * Kerry Wood

This is not the whole list.

It is also inaccurate as all get out.   No Boone's mentioned or Pujols.

Here are the only 89 players mentioned:

Manny Alexander
Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mark Bell
Gary Bennett
Marvin Bernard
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Ricky Bones
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Alex Cabrera
Jose Canseco
Ken Caminiti
Mike Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Paxton Crawford
Jack Cust
Chris Donnells
Brendan Donnely
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jay Gibbons
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
Wally Joyner
Mike Judd
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews Jr.
Mark McGwire
Cody McKay
Kent Merker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Armando Rios
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Derrick Turnbow
Ismael Valdez
Randy Velarde
Mo Vaughn
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodward
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

Might as well be 88 since Caminiti died in 2004.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by john9001
to try to make a boring game more exciting by raising the scores and having more home runs.

The home run is the most boring play in baseball.  As soon as the ball leaves the bat the play is over.  A steal or a double play is a better play to show on the highlights.

But then anticipation rather than the actual play is what watching baseball is all about.

Today they just announced the new members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and there is strong suspicion of widespread drug use among HOF membership.

[Sixpence]

there are lots more, they just couldn't find proof. the smart ones didn't leave notes on club letterhead(hello deluca).

the 80's & 90's were the age of steroids, Arnold governator made them super popular, they were everywhere. geez, I can't think of one gym that didn't have someone dealing steroids.

I like all these beat writers and sport talk show guys who play dumb too, like they didn't know what was going on, yeah right, they are only in the locker room doing interviews.

everyone knew this was going on, but no one cared, everyone was making money and baseball was popular again. Now all these media guys are roasting the very players they wrote about to make a living when they knew they were juiced.

Now the players are the scape goats, give me a break.

What, you think football players aren't doing steroids? are you kidding me? what, the human race evolved in a few decades to where 350 lbs men run a 4.4 forty yard dash?? huh? and no, it's not a healthly lifestyle, so don't go there. there is no testing in the off season

and you think the beat writers, reporters and sport talk radio guys don't know? they sure will act surprised though if it blows up into a big story like baseball did, i'll bet the house on that.

my guess is baseball will do like football, random tests starting at spring training til the end of the season, they'll be able to do their cycles of whatever in the off season

I agree with a previous post, just make new rules for testing and move on, stop looking for someone to lynch

[Saxman]

Like I said, tho, don't just go by the names. The context makes a HUGE difference and needs to be considered as well. At least a couple of the names were exonerated of any wrong-doing based on legitimate circumstances in which they used them, especially when it was administered by a physician's instruction and care.