Author Topic: Turkey attacks Iraq again...  (Read 3152 times)

Offline john9001

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2007, 09:16:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking


 Turkey has amassed 100,000 troops with tanks and artillery on the border and the Turkish government is threatening to invade north Iraq.


tell turkey they are about 5 years too late with the 100,000 troops.

Offline Bluedog

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2007, 09:54:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
tell turkey they are about 5 years too late with the 100,000 troops.


Gotta agree there John.

The question is though, now that they are there, what do they intend to do with them?
Given their recent refusals of base rights and passage rights, just how much sway does the wishes of the coalition have on what the Turkish armed forces do or don't do?
Would they adhere to any lines drawn in the sand, or would they keep rolling south?
Are they aiming to take out terrorists, or wipe out the Kurds?

For all you lot shouting 'troll!', take a second look.
When you guys stop seeing attacks on your national character behind every post a foreigner makes, you might find there are some very pertinent questions being asked.

Viking may like poking you all with a stick every so often, but he has a very good point.

There is a recently not-so-cooperative, well armed, well trained military threatening to invade the northern reaches of a country our coalition forces are currently in charge of, and I assume guaranteeing the security of.

If that isn't a topic worthy of serious discussion here, what is?

One would assume that the Turks are in no hurry to alienate the NATO pact members, but how solid is that assumption? Do they see a situation where they can expand their borders a bit, wipe out some old enemies and pretty much get away with it because everyone has their hands full as it is at the moment ?

Hypothetical situation for you......

The Turks roll south over the border and hit the Kurds hard.
The Coalition command says " OK, thats far enough, stay North of xxxxxxx"
The Turks ignore it and keep rolling south chasing the Kurds.


What would be the coalition's reaction ?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 10:04:14 AM by Bluedog »

Offline Maverick

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2007, 11:14:13 AM »
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Viking, please find out how much it would cost you for a one way ticket to a Kurdish village in the crosshairs.  I'll pay for your ticket.    :D


Take beetle with you and I'll contribute as well.
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Offline acfireguy26

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2007, 12:39:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bluedog


Hypothetical situation for you......

The Turks roll south over the border and hit the Kurds hard.
The Coalition command says " OK, thats far enough, stay North of xxxxxxx"
The Turks ignore it and keep rolling south chasing the Kurds.


What would be the coalition's reaction ?




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Offline E25280

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2007, 03:59:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bluedog
What would be the coalition's reaction ?
I would imagine, on the table would be:

1) Expulsion from NATO
2) Cessation of any/all foreign aid
3) Expulsion of all Turkish nationals from NATO member nations
4) Shutdown of the Iraq-Turkey oil pipeline and resulting revenues
5) Perminant end to any ambitions of becoming a full member of the EU
6) Any of a multitude of economic sanctions

Turkey has far too much to lose economically from going against NATO's wishes to make such a drastic move.  IF they mount a major military excursion (BIG IF), it will be with NATO's blessings, however back-room those blessings may be.
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Offline WMLute

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2007, 08:53:28 PM »
Found this interesting quote from a Yahoo news article about the Turkish Air Raids into Iraq (With Allah as their witness, they thought they could fly)

Looks like my take on it was 100% spot on.  (per. usual)

Viking, does it suck to be so totally wrong about so many things so often?  I wouldn't know what that feels like of course, but if you need to share, I want you to consider this BBS a "safe place".  We are here for ya' little guy.  I know it can't be easy to be so out of touch with reality.  

Quote
"America gave intelligence," Kanal D television in Turkey quoted the nation's military chief, Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, as saying. "But more importantly, America last night opened (Iraqi) airspace to us. By opening the airspace, America gave its approval to this operation."

Washington is trying to balance support for two key allies: the Turkish government and the Iraqi Kurds. Despite their apparent support for a limited raid, the United States remains firmly opposed to any major Turkish military operation into northern Iraq — which could disrupt one of the calmest areas of Iraq and run the risk of destabilizing the entire region.

In Washington, a Pentagon official said the U.S. military had "deconflicted the air space" in Iraq for the strikes — that is, the U.S. made sure Turkey would have clear use of the skies to enable the bombings.

Another Pentagon official said the U.S. military has been sharing intelligence with Turkey, but that he did not know exactly what information was given to aid with the air strikes or when it might have been given. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to speak on the record.


Link to YahooNews article quoted
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2007, 09:32:42 PM »
"America gave intelligence," Kanal D television in Turkey quoted the nation's military chief, Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, as saying. "But more importantly, America last night opened (Iraqi) airspace to us. By opening the airspace, America gave its approval to this operation."

Washington is trying to balance support for two key allies: the Turkish government and the Iraqi Kurds. Despite their apparent support for a limited raid, the United States remains firmly opposed to any major Turkish military operation into northern Iraq — which could disrupt one of the calmest areas of Iraq and run the risk of destabilizing the entire region.

In Washington, a Pentagon official said the U.S. military had "deconflicted the air space" in Iraq for the strikes — that is, the U.S. made sure Turkey would have clear use of the skies to enable the bombings.

Another Pentagon official said the U.S. military has been sharing intelligence with Turkey, but that he did not know exactly what information was given to aid with the air strikes or when it might have been given. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to speak on the record.
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Why does this seem so hideously wrong?

I mean, we've had literally thousands of troops fighting, dieing, getting maimed, etc. to try to bring peace and stability to Iraq, And now this?

Doesn't this seem like all it will do is to turn the Kurds' against us, and destroy our credibility with not only the Iraqi people, but all of the Arabs' as well?

We should have just told Turkey tough cookies. If you catch them on your side of the border, fine. Fly over here bombing them, WE will shoot you down.

Offline DiabloTX

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2007, 09:56:52 PM »
Why are you and Viking thinking that every Kurd is a member of the PKK?  This is not an ethnic cleansing operation, it's an attack on an identified  terrorist organisation that has made multiple terrorist attacks within Turkey's borders.  How are you 2 not understanding this?
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Offline KgB

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2007, 10:25:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3

We should have just told Turkey tough cookies. If you catch them on your side of the border, fine. Fly over here bombing them, WE will shoot you down.

Turkish Army is one of the largest standing armies in the world and the second largest army of NATO.You dont wanna go into war with it,not right now.
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Offline john9001

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2007, 10:44:06 PM »
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Originally posted by KgB
Turkish Army is one of the largest standing armies in the world and the second largest army of NATO.You dont wanna go into war with it,not right now.


saddam had the third largest army in the would and they were "battle hardened", they lasted 100 hours.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2007, 11:19:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3


We should have just told Turkey tough cookies. If you catch them on your side of the border, fine. Fly over here bombing them, WE will shoot you down.



So you advocate supporting a terrorist group, one that the US has labeled as such?  The PKK are launching attacks from the Iraqi side of the border and using it as a safe haven.  Turkey has the right to go after them.  We cry about being in Iraq so we don't have suicide bombers on our streets, what's wrong with Turkey ensuring the same doesn't happen anymore on their streets?


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2007, 11:25:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
saddam had the third largest army in the would and they were "battle hardened", they lasted 100 hours.



Yep, they used Soviet tactics and equipment and were mostly trained in static defenses which served them well in their war with Iran.  Using those tactics to fight the 1st Gulf War, it's easy to see how they were defeated by a more mobile army.

Turkey on the other hand has US equipment and very well trained and disciplined army.  They also have a reputation of being fierce and tough fighters, something the Europeans found out first hand in World War I.  


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Offline john9001

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2007, 11:27:38 PM »
whats wrong with the turks giving the kurds in turkey autonomy?

Offline john9001

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« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2007, 11:31:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
They also have a reputation of being fierce and tough fighters, something the Europeans found out first hand in World War I.  
ack-ack


i thought the arabs defeated the turks in WW1?

Offline KgB

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Turkey attacks Iraq again...
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2007, 12:37:52 AM »
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Originally posted by john9001
i thought the arabs defeated the turks in WW1?

Brits and Soviets i think,not sure.
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