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Author Topic: III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8  (Read 2621 times)

Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« on: December 26, 2007, 10:49:52 PM »
"Double Black Chevron" flown by Hauptmann Herbert Kutscha, Gruppenkommandeur of III./JG 11 circa February 1945.













« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 10:51:57 PM by Fencer51 »
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Fencer
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Offline killnu

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2007, 12:12:56 AM »
you may be my new best friend...virtually of course :aok
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Offline Xasthur

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 01:52:36 AM »
Excellent work as usual.

My only nit-picks would be:

- The exhaust discolouring on the fuselage looks too uniformly curved.

- The left fuselage doesn't seem to have the correct hand and foot ports for the pilot.

Eg:  As in this film (24 seconds, Youtube)

I look forward to using this one, Fencer, those upper-wing surfaces look fantastic.

Thanks mate.
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Offline Angrist

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2007, 03:13:02 AM »
Fencer-

Really appreciate you doing all these skins for JG11.  So I hate to make any comment, other than thanks, but...

I really believe that this A-8 is not just Gray.  Judging from the only picture I have of this particular craft, starting at where the canopy joins the windscreen, the color changes from gray to a greenish brown (again, I'm not sure of the color number).  I've examined the picture under normal and artificial lighting and I'm almost positive of it.

I will try and get a good scan of the picture tomorrow and post it here.  Hopefully it will show what I am talking about.

Regardless.... for taking the time, and putting forth the effort you have for producing the skins for our Gruppe!
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Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2007, 08:09:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xasthur

- The left fuselage doesn't seem to have the correct hand and foot ports for the pilot.


It has the two that the guy uses to board the a/c, and what is shown on every line drawing I have, photos and profiles.

Yee gods we are using Youtube for a reference now.  What's next?  GI Combat comics?
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Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 08:16:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angrist
Fencer-

Really appreciate you doing all these skins for JG11.  So I hate to make any comment, other than thanks, but...

I really believe that this A-8 is not just Gray.  Judging from the only picture I have of this particular craft, starting at where the canopy joins the windscreen, the color changes from gray to a greenish brown (again, I'm not sure of the color number).  I've examined the picture under normal and artificial lighting and I'm almost positive of it.
 


If it is the profile from Aircraft of the Aces #6, don't bother.  I have that book.  I have scanned it in myself and the scan looks brown all over  but it definately is grey in the book.  There are numerous other planes on that page and the previous one with the same grey color.  I can see no differentation showing any greenish hue.

If you have an actual photo let's see it.

[edit] And I need to redo the wear on the wings, that does not look right.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 08:39:39 AM by Fencer51 »
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The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 08:42:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
you may be my new best friend...virtually of course :aok


My life is complete when I make Killnu and Greebo happy with my skins in one week. :aok
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Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Xasthur

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 10:27:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
It has the two that the guy uses to board the a/c, and what is shown on every line drawing I have, photos and profiles.

Yee gods we are using Youtube for a reference now.  What's next?  GI Combat comics?


I'm not trying to give you a hard time. Whilst youtube may well be a poor reference can you really dispute the nature of this clip? It's actual wartime footage... Can there be any greater resource than that?

I just can't see the foot-hole, that's all.


Like I said, it was just a suggestion, not an attempt to detract from your work, which I have always praised and shown appreciation for.

[Edit] You're right, I thought I saw a second grab point on the actual fuselage when in fact there is just one... the hand-hold which you have illustrated. He is obviously standing on the retractable foot-peg initially. My apologies.

My point stands, I wasn't trying to detract from your work at all and in this case, Youtube has proved to be a decisive reference.

What about the exhaust burns?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 10:33:49 AM by Xasthur »
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Offline Xasthur

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 10:39:03 AM »
With the exhaust, you will see what I mean in this picture. The exhaust has stained a portion just above the black/white outline area right back along the fuselage rather than in a curved line such as in your skin. A small detail but a detail nonetheless. I mean this in no other way than a constructive criticism.

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Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2007, 10:59:46 AM »
Not every smoke stain was the same.  I have photos of 190s without smoke stains.  But people expect them to be there, so I put one on it.  I will play with it some more.

As to YouTube, I should have put a smiley after it.  Sorry did not mean to indicate your assistance was unappreciated.
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Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Xasthur

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2007, 11:08:36 AM »
Of course, it would be impossible for them all to be the same. To my eye your exhaust stain suggests the engine being run whilst the aircraft is stationary more than when it was actually in flight, which would seem to be unlikely.

I read to much into the post, I can see that you were just joking around, my apologies.

In any case, my point with the exhaust is that I would expect the exhaust to be blown out more. Air flow would push the exhaust heat back out into a more steadily declining line along the fuselage, if you get what I mean.

More like a 45 degree decline rather than an exponential decline.

Maybe even try lightening it right up and make it appear as though the aircraft is new from the factory? Nothing dictates that all skins need be battle-hardened and severly weathered. That could be interesting.

Just some food for thought...

Regards,

-Arch
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Offline Angrist

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 12:25:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
If it is the profile from Aircraft of the Aces #6, don't bother.  I have that book.  I have scanned it in myself and the scan looks brown all over  but it definately is grey in the book.  There are numerous other planes on that page and the previous one with the same grey color.  I can see no differentation showing any greenish hue.

If you have an actual photo let's see it.

[edit] And I need to redo the wear on the wings, that does not look right.


Yes, that is the profile I'm referring too.  Didn't appear solid grey to me, but I'll bow to your knoiwledge on this.

Anyhow...thanks again
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Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2007, 01:59:48 PM »
What about profiles 2, 3 and 6 ?  Do you see green there?  They are the same basic upper color.

Lets see what ya got, I want it right, but I have done everything but examine it under a microscope! >G<
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The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Angrist

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
What about profiles 2, 3 and 6 ?  Do you see green there?  They are the same basic upper color.

Lets see what ya got, I want it right, but I have done everything but examine it under a microscope! >G<


Profile #2: 190 A-8 of 7./JG1

-Yes, it appears to change to a mottled Greenish Brown over the Grey at about the same point as Profile #7, generally where the sliding canopy meets the windscreen.

Profiles #3 & 6: 190 D-9's of JG3 and 6

-Both of these appear to be a solid grey (much like what you have modeled on the JG11 A-8 here)
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Offline Fencer51

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III./ JG 11 Fw190A-8
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 03:02:00 PM »
Stupid Question Time.

How old is your book?  Mine is from 1996.
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Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.
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