They going to pull Arnold's Republican card...

[lazs2]

so you are saying that all we have to do is tell doctors and medicine companies how much they can sell their products for?

Yet..  you go and use canada as an example of how it can all work and that is socialized medicine.

How can you claim to not be for socialized medicine when you praise socialized medicine?

But.. tell me again.. how are you going to make it all affordable.

I can tell you how to do it.

Simply roll back treatment to 1950..  no procedure or medicine that didn't exist in 1950 can be used here.   the costs will plummet.  should cost about $25 a month tops.

lazs

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Bighorn, you're just being an argumentative *******. I'm trying to have a civil conversation.  save your text,  you are on my ignore list.

Didn't want to hurt your feelings. I'm just pointing out some facts.

[crockett]

Originally posted by lazs2
so you are saying that all we have to do is tell doctors and medicine companies how much they can sell their products for?

Yet..  you go and use canada as an example of how it can all work and that is socialized medicine.

How can you claim to not be for socialized medicine when you praise socialized medicine?

But.. tell me again.. how are you going to make it all affordable.

I can tell you how to do it.

Simply roll back treatment to 1950..  no procedure or medicine that didn't exist in 1950 can be used here.   the costs will plummet.  should cost about $25 a month tops.

lazs

Never mind it's not even worth arguing about it with you.

[SteveBailey]

I don't think you know everything about it.

You are certainly 100% right about that. I don't.

The information I posted was from papers and articles written on the subject by assorted authors and researchers. I glean my information the same way you do, I read it somewhere or watch it on TV, or the occasional conversation w/ a Doc/hospital administrator. I have done a lot of reading about it, my wife recently had to do reasearch on it for school.

Think about this though.  in one thought you say the hospitals are price gouging us.  In another sentence you say hospitals are going out of busniess(financial failure). They can't really be doing both.

 My point is not to score here, it is to show that in order for us to have cheaper health care. we need to lower the operating costs of the system.

I'm with you, I'd like to see all of our citizens have access to the best of care.  Unfortunately, getting there would involve some very hard choices for politicians who are too cowardly to act.(not just dems... all of the paid off, unethical turds).

[crockett]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
You are certainly 100% right about that. I don't.

The information I posted was from papers and articles written on the subject by assorted authors and researchers. I glean my information the same way you do, I read it somewhere or watch it on TV, or the occasional conversation w/ a Doc/hospital administrator. I have done a lot of reading about it, my wife recently had to do reasearch on it for school.

Think about this though.  in one thought you say the hospitals are price gouging us.  In another sentence you say hospitals are going out of busniess(financial failure). They can't really be doing both.

 My point is not to score here, it is to show that in order for us to have cheaper health care. we need to lower the operating costs of the system.

I'm with you, I'd like to see all of our citizens have access to the best of care.  Unfortunately, getting there would involve some very hard choices for politicians who are too cowardly to act.(not just dems... all of the paid off, unethical turds).

The ones whom I've heard about going out of business tend to be in large cities in the poor areas of town. I know there were a bunch that closed in Cali several years back and of course that's likely due to the illegals.

The others tend to be inner city hospitals in low income areas. Simple logic tells me the people for one reason or another can't or don't pay their bills so the hospital is forced to close.

That doesn't mean that they wern't price gouging it just means people couldn't pay their bills. Which kinda almost proves my point about the fact it simply cost far too much.

When you add in the fact that hospitals are notorious for changing $5+ for just a aspirin well the argument is already slated against them.

Hell with the wreck I had, I sat in the emergency waiting room for something like 2 hours b4 they even gave me a triage. At that point they put a neck brace on me that the billed the insurance company something close to $100 for it.

Now I had sat there in the waiting room for 2 hours and aperantly didn't need a neck brace, yet it was covenant enough to use on my so they could bill the insurance company. I mean I was sooo glad they were so worried that I might have a neck injury 2 hours after I had signed in.

I think they just wanted to bill the insurance company for it. So inreality if the hospitals can't make it will out that kinda BS. We there is no other option than to have more govt funding. I mean lets get real here the entire system is broken and it's not going to fix it's self.

[BigGun]

Originally posted by crockett
I think they just wanted to bill the insurance company for it. So inreality if the hospitals can't make it will out that kinda BS. We there is no other option than to have more govt funding. I mean lets get real here the entire system is broken and it's not going to fix it's self.

Maybe they put it on just as a preventative measure. I mean think what would happen if you walk in, possible neck/whiplash complaints, they give no brace, you turn your head and something snaps & you become paralized. Think of the lawsuit & potential claim! It is just they world we live in. Also, how much do you guess it costs to run an ER for an hour? what would personnel costs be? Overhead, fixed costs? recouping costs for the equipment?

You want something which is more affordable, for who? you or everyone?

Government steps in to fix it, it may be more affordable for some, but more expensive for others. People that make money and pay a huge portion of the taxes all ready will be paying more to cover health care for those that choose not to buy it or can't afford it. I am glad I don't have to choose to get rid of coverage over a meager $130 prescription the insurance wouldn't cover. To choose not to have it, especially if it is available for you to purchase is significantly irresponsible.

[crockett]

Originally posted by BigGun
Maybe they put it on just as a preventative measure. I mean think what would happen if you walk in, possible neck/whiplash complaints, they give no brace, you turn your head and something snaps & you become paralized. Think of the lawsuit & potential claim! It is just they world we live in. Also, how much do you guess it costs to run an ER for an hour? what would personnel costs be? Overhead, fixed costs? recouping costs for the equipment?

You want something which is more affordable, for who? you or everyone?

Government steps in to fix it, it may be more affordable for some, but more expensive for others. People that make money and pay a huge portion of the taxes all ready will be paying more to cover health care for those that choose not to buy it or can't afford it. I am glad I don't have to choose to get rid of coverage over a meager $130 prescription the insurance wouldn't cover. To choose not to have it, especially if it is available for you to purchase is significantly irresponsible.

Yea well if that was the case, why not do it when I first walked in the door? They waited two hours to do it and soon as the doctor saw me he took it off told me and said I didn't need it.

I'd buy the preventive measure had they done it soon as I checked in. That's like letting someone bleed to death and then giving them a blood transfusion anmd hoping you don't get sued.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by crockett

That doesn't mean that they wern't price gouging it just means people couldn't pay their bills.  

Why would they gouge prices and make it so people couldn't pay? How can you see this makes no sense?  
These low income areas also happened to be heavily populated by illegal aliens.

The thing is, if you get govt involved and they force lower prices, more hospitals will go bankrupt, there wil be a greater shortage of Dr's and nurses. It's obvious.

If govt gets involved in helping pay bills for people,.  who is going to pay for it?  Nothing from the Govt is free. Someone always pays. Why do you expect those who choose to support themselves to support others who choose to be parasitic?

What is unseen is their free medical care that has degraded andclosed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities, and
caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing
their doors. Anchor babies born to illegal aliens instantly qualify
as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused enormous rises in
Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental Security Income
and Disability Income

many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.

In 1994, 74,987 anchor babies in California hospital maternity units cost $215 million and
constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births. Now they account for
substantially more than half.

This is really obscene:  

When Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield, California with about $8,500 in small bills in a sack, the police originally thought it was stolen money. It was her SSI lump sum award for her disability: heroin addiction.

Until people admit that the illegal alien population is eroding our infrastructure, our country will continue its' sprial to third world status.

[crockett]

Originally posted by texasmom
Key term there is: "fail to take care of themselves"

Lesson: if you make poor choices, you suffer the consequences.  Get up, dust yourself off & make better choices.  What are we, babysitters to adults?

If someone screws up, let them suffer.  That will factor in to their decision making process the next time they're choosing between screwing up & doing right.

A lot of people are born with problems, Is it their fault too?

[SD67]

Steve, I have to agree, that is really obscene!:O

[crockett]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Why would they gouge prices and make it so people couldn't pay? How can you see this makes no sense?  
These low income areas also happened to be heavily populated by illegal aliens.

The thing is, if you get govt involved and they force lower prices, more hospitals will go bankrupt, there wil be a greater shortage of Dr's and nurses. It's obvious.

If govt gets involved in helping pay bills for people,.  who is going to pay for it?  Nothing from the Govt is free. Someone always pays. Why do you expect those who choose to support themselves to support others who choose to be parasitic?


This is really obscene:  


Until people admit that the illegal alien population is eroding our infrastructure, our country will continue its' sprial to third world status.

You claim to be in the medical profession and you have never heard of false billing?

In reguards to illegals.. Yea we all know the problems they create, and every politician talks tough on TV about them. At the end of the day they never do a thing about them.

Why do you think that is? Could it be our economy needs the cheap labor yet we are just afraid to say it in public.

I honestly can't blame an illegal for wanting to come here. Would you not try to better yourself and feed your family?  We are never going to stop people from coming here for that very reason. The only way we will ever stop it, is to pump money into Mexico to help it build a stable economy there.

My dad has a construction company and can never find stable help. Hell he pays them good and treats them good yet none ever want to work.

One day my dad was otw to work and saw this kid walking down the street. He gave him a ride and ended up giving him a job. Hell we had the kid over for Christmas because he has no family here as he's from Mexico.

Hell my dad and step mother ended up giving him a room and a place to stay, because the kid works his bellybutton off. He's 18 or 19 years old and barely speaks a word of English, but he's learning.  He has an ID but I'm pretty sure he's likely an illegal.

Yea know what? I say send 10 more if they work as hard as this kid does.
Sorry, illegal or not, IMO that kid has more right to be here than half the lazy tulips that were born in this country. That's a simple fact.

The problem is, we can't stop them from getting here and no matter what some like to claim. They aren't all bad useless criminals, most of them just want a better life. You can build a 20 ft wall and waste a bunch of money doing it and they will still get here.  The only solution is for them not to have a reason to come here.

[SD67]

Occasionally you hear of doctors here rorting the medicare system, charging long consults for shorter standard ones.  They lose their licences and are heavily fined when they are caught.
The medicare levy pays for the bulk of our health care system. It even can be levied on unemployment and pension benefits.

[Gunthr]

Under a national health care system, what would happen to all those fat juicy multimillion dollar lawsuits filed by rapacious liberal attorneys like that phoney hair-do boy Edwards?  

Would the govt just stand idly by and allow itself to be repeatedly sued for what would no doubt be justifiable negligence cases?  Or would the govt impose a ban on medical lawsuits...   hmmm

[lazs2]

so you guys are saying that the high cost of health care and insurance has to to only with price gouging?

that we could all buy cheap insurance and still pay for all the illegals and anyone who chose not to work or pay by simply regulating profit?

That we have a lousy medical system that has created no new drugs or procedures worth the money?

The government controls medicare.   it is a failure and a money pit.  Medicare covers millions of people who all pay into it.  

Why does the government not try all these inovative plans with medicare?  they can "negotiate" for care and drugs on a county wide level and give the drugs and service to the people on medicare.

Shouldn't medicare be the best system in America if simply have a government run program is the answer?

lazs

[SteveBailey]

You claim to be in the medical profession and you have never heard of false billing?

Are you implying I'm not telling the truth?  "I claim" ?
why don't you explain to me what false billing is?  Go ahead.

I know what fraudulant billing is.. never heard of false billing.

IMO that kid has more right to be here than half the lazy tulips that were born in this country. That's a simple fact.

Exactly what is a simple fact?  Go ahead, tell me all about it for once instead of ignoring my questions and changing the subject.  Just once, support your assertions instead of moving on when challenged.

They are criminals. They have NO right to be here. Many many  of them continue their criminal ways, many of them violent.  I guess that's ok with you as long as your dad can have cheap labor and no-one you care about gets hurt.  You're a great guy.