Author Topic: Ok, Serious Problem Guys (Read 1754 times)

SlapShot · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2008, 08:36:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
If the stick is that sensitive, set up some scaling in AH to lessen the effect of the center-area stick movement. I've made a post about scaling some time ago, it should be in the help and training forum named "having problems aiming?" or something like that.

EDIT: here:
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207346

Might help, might not.

All tho scaling might help Krusty, it's muscle/brain memory. My Cougar required a whole lot more of muscle to push around than my Fighterstick.

When I first started using the CH Fighterstick, I was all over the place pushing and pulling the stick with the same force that I was use to using on the Cougar.

In time, you will retrain your muscle/brain memory to the new stick and all will be ok ... ya just gotta keep using it until the feel comes back.

dtango · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2008, 11:25:35 AM »

Donkey:

For what it's worth, here's my experience on the X52. As background I've used the following joysticks over the years I've been in AH.

Logitech Wingman (3x) --> Saitek Cyborg --> Saitek X45 --> Saitek X52

Out of all the joysticks the X52 has been the most challenging to adapt to. I didn't expect the issues I had going from the X45 to X52 a couple of years ago but the X52 has been personally for me the hardest one to adapt to. It's extremely sensitive and I've played around with a bunch of different AH stick scalings over time to try and figure out what worked the best for me.

In the end I've left my scaling at an upward straight line from left to right.

I agree with Slapshot. From my experience for me it's all about muscle/brain memory. I find with the X52 that I have to be very precise and any overcompensation in motion will lead to over control and that it takes time to even relearn this after being away from AH for more than a couple of days.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

goober69 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2008, 05:40:59 PM »

lol i was considering getting the x52 im using just a st290 now and the keyboard for commands i may just get the throttle if i can find it by itself
but i was in best buy and they had the x52 throttle and stick for 99$ what u guys think?

mtnman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2008, 07:53:59 PM »

Personally, I love the X52, and had no problems getting used to it, other than getting used to new button locations etc...

I started out with a few "el-cheapo" sticks at first, before I tried the Saitek Cyborg EVO. I liked that stick too, but it kept dieing on me. I eventually bought an X52 and thought I'd gone to heaven! I'm on my third X52 now, and can't imagine anything better, unless it was more durable. I've got the replacement plan so I just take the old one back to the store and swap out for a new one every year or so.

As far as scaling goes, I have all the scales for all the axis in a line straight across the top. I fly with small control movements, and like the sensitivity set as high as I can get it. I don't have problems with nose bounce.

As for the weak spring, I notice the REVERSE problem you do. I need to wipe off the bottom of the plastic "washer" under the spring, as well as the surface it rubs on, or I notice the stick forces build up with dust. Crazy? Yup, but I even smear vasoline in the friction areas to smooth it up and make it slide easier. Makes the dust stick sooner, but I wipe it down each time I fly while waiting for the game to load.

I've flown RC planes for years, so having no feeling for stick forces etc, and flying with small control inputs is second nature.

My guess is you are just over-controlling, and you'll eventually get used to the stick. Have you tried going to the TA and just flying around, doing made-up aerobatics for a few hours? If not, try it. In the MA environment, we normally just fly around smooth and level, and don't get into any fancy flying until we fight. That IS NOT a good time to try to figure out a new set-up if you're having problems like you describe.

MtnMan

FireDrgn · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2008, 08:33:07 PM »

My brother and I both fly with x52..... He can't fly on mine and I can't fly on his.... We both have minor differances in the set up. He was over the other night and Zipang kept shooting him down...All he had to say was "your x52 is $#%^#$ up. I can't fly with your piece of #$#@"......

It all subconscience sorry to say but u have to keep flying untill u learn the new stick.

outbreak · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2008, 06:31:45 AM »

Switched to X52 from Saitek Cyborg back in beginning of Dec last year, best thing i coulda done, not only did it take some getting used to due to it being so Sensitive, but its the best stick ive used, got CH Pro Peds with it and it works like a charm

takes a month or so to get real used to it.

and as for finding a good deal on X52, try Saitek website, they got them Refurbished for $69, thats what i bought, the one i got was not able to be sold due to a minor dent and scuff on throttle control, i actually had to look for the thing it was so hard to find, but its those minor details that take a $150 stick to $69!

Here is Link:

X52 Refurb:
http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/x52flcosyre.html

X52 Pro Refurb:
http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/x52proflcosy1.html

Xasthur · « **Reply #21 on:** January 06, 2008, 10:04:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angrist
I switched from a Saitek Evo FF stick to the X52 in December, and I'm just now getting used to it. It screwed me up for a good while.

But...it's nice having everything at my finger tips now. It takes some practice, cause like you, it felt light when I first got it. Now, it's not so bad.

Give it time...it will come.

I second this. I went from a Cyborg Evo to the X52 and my ability to shoot and fly dropped out of sight, it was horrific.

The X52 doesn't even have a particularly light action compared to the Cyborg so the aircraft control thing wasn't a massive step.

I'm still getting used to it and I got it a month ago. I auger a lot, miss shots that I used to get every time and all that junk.

The stick is definitely a huge improvement. Very convienient with all the buttons at hand and seperate throttle.

It all takes time, though. Relax and just stick with it.

Make sure that you've calibrated it properly too, this is important. I went ahead a calibrated every axis seperately and I also changed the JSM profile too... (do a forum search for 'stick dampening' and check out the profiles Lynx and others are using, they're a little bit smoother as they use more gradual incriments (which would help in your nose-bouncing while taking a shot situation)).

Like MtnMan said... take it offline and fly around for a while.. Through hangars, take passing shots at the drones, take the time to get used to your new buttons so that you don't need to think when you're going for them mid-fight.

You're not doing anything wrong, Donkey, just get it set up right and give it a month or two to get comfortable with it.

mtnman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2008, 12:58:14 PM »

One problem I did have at first was that the base of the stick would rotate on my desktop too easily. Coupled with a light spring, this can cause you to be applying control inputs w/o realizing it, or apply inputs that are slightly "wrong" or unintended.

For example, if the base of the stick itself rotates a few degrees counter-clockwise, and you try to apply down elevator, you would actually apply down elevator, and some right aileron, and maybe even some right rudder (assuming you don't notice that the base turned, or are too deep in a fight to be able to fix it...).

At first I took a damp rag to the rubber pads on the base of the stick, but that wasn't good enough. I tried the suction cups next, and didn't like those either. The best thing I've found, and what I'm very happy with, is Velcro strips applied to the base of my stick, and to the surface I mount it to.

Mine is mounted to my chair, and is in EXACTLY the same place EVERY TIME I fly, and NEVER shifts.

I spent 30 minutes in the garage and fabricated a wooden do-dad that mounts to or from my chair in 10 seconds or less, and holds my stick and throttle. I can sit back in my chair in a nice comfortable position, and my stick and throttle are just exactly where they should be. I was getting back and shoulder problems from holding my stick when it was on my desk, and neck problems because my monitor was too low. My arm wasn't supported before, and my neck was always bent forward. (Maybe too many hours in AH?) This set-up fixed all those problems for me. I can even fly reclined, but my pedals are more difficult to reach.

A wooden tab plugs into the base of the chair, and rubber surgical tubing keeps the top surfaces secure to my armrests. If anyone has an interest, I can supply more detailed photos.

Here's a photo-

MtnMan

DoNKeY · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2008, 01:04:40 PM »

lol nice fix, and thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm using it, and so far it doesn't seem that bad. Its just those little precise movements to line up on someone when I'm on their six which is the hardest for me because I still am over correcting.

Angrist · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2008, 01:08:14 PM »

Mtnman...I'm definitely interested. I'm experiencing some of the same problems you are describing.

mtnman · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2008, 04:38:43 PM »

Here are a few more pictures Kierg-

The top squares are 5.5"x5.5"
The bottom board is 3.5"x24"
The 2x4 pieces are 9.25" along the long edges, cut at a slight angle to fit my chair. I had my saw set to a cut of 17 degrees.

Those pieces are all pine, made from scrap in my garage.

The two "tabs" that insert under my chair are oak scraps, 1"x5.125", 1/2" think. I made them out of oak for strength, but lots of other things would work (plywood?). Spaced out to get around the chair adjustment bolt, but close enough together to slide into that opening... Mine are 2 7/8" outside edge to outside edge.

I glued and screwed the pieces together. I made it out of wood as a trial run, thinking I would adjust it later and make it out of metal. About 1 year later, I still can't think of anything to adjust, hehe. I no longer feel like making a metal one. I used to do custom cabinetry, so am very familiar with the tools and materials, but this is a very simple project. 1/2 hour tops, but I considered measurements etc in advance...

I sit in my chair, and slide this apparatus in place. Then wrap the tubing around the arms and hook it to the screw sticking out of the front of the 2x4. I stick my joystick and throttle in place on the pink Velcro (from my wife's stash of goodies...). The cord from the throttle to the joystick goes behind the chair "leg".

I restart my computer with a different profile to play AH. I can easily set this up and grab a beer while my computer restarts.

MtnMan

goober69 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2008, 04:45:39 PM »

most excelent mntman..

any of you mount the stick in your crotch like i do?
its more comfortable to me to have it centered with my body.

oh btw how is the rudder on the x 52 worth using or better to get pedals.

the twisty i use now gives me ecelent control.

Angrist · « **Reply #27 on:** January 06, 2008, 04:58:09 PM »

Excellent Mtnman!!

Yep, family has done some custom cabinetry work, ourselves. My Father is still in that and just general custom woodworking business. So I have access to every tool I could want...lol I had thought about making something similar to yours, but hadn't gotten off my butt to do it.. lol I think I like your setup better.

Think I'm gonna work on this, this next week.

Thanks again Bro!

DoNKeY · « **Reply #28 on:** January 06, 2008, 06:25:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by goober69

any of you mount the stick in your crotch like i do?
its more comfortable to me to have it centered with my body.

Same, has to be centered for me.

donkey

mtnman · « **Reply #29 on:** January 06, 2008, 06:48:00 PM »

Well, you could easily adapt a device like I use to mount the stick in the center. You'd end up stradling an upright post between your legs. (Hehe!) I'd originally intended to do it that way myself, but after further thought I decided it would be a pain to get up for a drink, etc.

I could adjust mine easily by cutting the long base board about 10" shorter, and screwing the right-hand upright to the center instead of way out to the right. I'd still leave the throttle over to the left, and secure it to the armrest like I currently do.

If I did that, I'd shorten the upright holding the stick a bit. I'd even be tempted to tilt the stick slightly forward if I mounted it that way. The weak spring on the stick might cause problems though, because if it allowed the stick to sag forward it would kick off the auto-pilot while I was AFK. The bad thing for me is that it would mean no support for my elbow/arm, which would give me back and shoulder issues again...

MtnMan