Author Topic: US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships  (Read 5166 times)

Offline Viking

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #165 on: January 15, 2008, 11:23:10 AM »
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I agree in part Ripley, but if, as GScholz was saying, the Iranians sank all our ships in the Persian Gulf using Russian assistance, I'd bet the US and Russia would be on a totally different footing.


Please point to where "Russian assistance" is mentioned:



Quote
Originally posted by Viking
These missiles do not use the GPS system. No non-NATO weapon does. These missiles use inertial guidance, mid-course radio/satellite guidance and active radar terminal guidance. As for targeting and mid-course guidance the Iranians launched its first recce satellite in 2005. They know exactly where your ships are at any given moment.



Please don't put words in my mouth.

Offline rstel01

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #166 on: January 15, 2008, 11:59:54 AM »
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Originally posted by Vulcan
So what is your view on the disparate data from other USN ships in the area at the time such as the Sides which correctly identified the airliner (including its squawk #) before it was shot down?


It should also be taken into account the Vincennces was the only Aegis Cruiser operating in the group, and Sides is a Perry Class FFG.

There is a big difference in the tactical picture that was Rodgers saw versus what was saw as it played out in the CIC of the Sides.

Granted Vincennes was known in the theater as "RoboCruiser" but, you need to understand the whole dynamic of the battlefield of the Arabian Gulf during 87-89.

It was a common tactic for the three pack (one P-3 and two F-4's of the IIAF) to shadow commercial flights in the corridor and bounce the convoys. Also, understand the geography of the area. Where it occured was the Silkworm choke point, where the gulf is at its narrowest. Up north is a fairly open enviroment but, the transit to the I/O is a mass of Dhow's, Commercial Traffic, plus IIN Boghamers and IIAF aircraft running weapons profiles and painiting shipping in the choke point.

The common story of the CIC crew mistaking the aircon for an F-14 is an utter lie. Everyone knew the Tomcats the IIAF had are Unicorns. Meaning everyone hears about them but, no one has ever seen them.

Had we not pulled the bodies out of the water bound and tied to their seats, it might of been a different story.

Also, the crew of the Vinncenes was award multiple medals and merits for the action of that day.

Not a common USN practice for a crew that dropped the ball and killed 248 some odd civilians.

Like I said, sometimes things are changed for Poltical Reasons.

If anyone is really interested, I could scan and post some photos of the operations of the time. We used to have alot of fun with the Soviet warships also operating in theater.

Offline Viking

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #167 on: January 15, 2008, 12:27:40 PM »
What are you trying to say rstel01? That the Iranian airliner was "fake"?

Offline Bodhi

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #168 on: January 15, 2008, 12:46:46 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
What are you trying to say rstel01? That the Iranian airliner was "fake"?


Wow... he can actually comprehend something!  :O
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Viking

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #169 on: January 15, 2008, 01:48:54 PM »
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Wow... he can actually comprehend something!  :O



Unlike you ...

Offline rstel01

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2008, 01:59:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
What are you trying to say rstel01? That the Iranian airliner was "fake"?


It was a win-win for the Iranian government. If Captain Rodgers did not shoot the airliner down, the 3-pack of combat planes has a clear shot into the convoy and group sinking American ships and Kuwaiti shipping under the US flag.

If a shoot down occurs, the US Navy is demonized in the world press as killers of civilians (as occured).

Offline Viking

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #171 on: January 15, 2008, 02:22:56 PM »
I think I'll put you in the same category as those who think the Pentagon was hit by a CIA cruise missile. The loony bin.

Offline Ripsnort

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #172 on: January 15, 2008, 02:34:58 PM »
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Believe what you want, the EMP from a nuclear detonation is a threat to almost everything airborne.
That depends on alot of factors, how large of EMP explosion, distance from detonation, etc.  I know for a fact that an military aircraft that Boeing makes for our government has some sort of nuclear "hardening" around the avionics packages and wiring.  None of it is any good if you're close though...

Offline rstel01

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #173 on: January 15, 2008, 05:16:35 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
I think I'll put you in the same category as those who think the Pentagon was hit by a CIA cruise missile. The loony bin.


Were you there?

I was and the bottom line is Capatain Will Rodgers acted in the best interests of his ship, his crew, the law of the sea and the right of the United States Naval Warships Operating in international waters.

Otherwise, this is where my input to the discussion ends.

Best Regards

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2008, 05:17:27 PM »
The story with the iranian bodies being tied to their seats is not a part of the official truth about the incident, at least as portrayed by national geographics or discovery documentary about it. Are you sure you aren't falling to some urban legend there? Because it sounds pretty far fetched.

Most likely it's a fabrication of some of the usual 'see no evil hear no evil' folks that we see on this board also who think US forces can never fail, never do a mistake and fart greenhouse effect free gases.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Vulcan

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2008, 05:36:33 PM »
What is a big question for me is would a body in a seat float?

In all reports I've seen of airliner crashes in the ocean the bodies have been through such violent forces that often the clothing is ripped off them and none have been still attached to seats. I'm no expert but your comments rstel01 on this particular detail are what leads me to question your entire story.

In all the reports in the vincennes incident there is no mention of a "3 pack", including the video shot on the bridge at the time.

As for the sides 'tactical image', as I understood they were data linked with the vincennes and seeing exactly the same info. Including the fact the airliner was not diving and in fact in a slow ascent as per the data tapes.

rstel01 you do realize is that there are video tapes that were made available at the time of what happened on the bridge of the vincennes - and that video evidence seems somewhat at odds with your opinion.

Offline alskahawk

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not surprised
« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2008, 07:30:54 PM »
Not surprised with this. They fired on us during first gulf war. Couple of times.

 This was one of my concerns during the lead up to the current war. If you go into Iraq, Iran and Syria needs to be dealt with. They weren't dealt with so now Iran will be a problem and will be for some time. It was never a question of our military might it has always been a problem of political resolve and ability.
 Iran is a nuisance. The real concern is China. Iran and China have been cozy for quite some time. Not that China will come to Iran's aid but that China will supply Iran with technology. China's need for oil will rival the US demand within a few years. Given that oil production has peaked or is near peak China will have to get a foothold in the Gulf. Add to this the constant irritant of Taiwan.
 Here are some of the things China has done in the past few years;
 Captured an American ASW aircraft
 Shot down an American satellite
 Sharply increased defense spending
 There are some economical concerns. Dumping of products on the US market. Meddling with the Chinese stock exchange and the currency markets. Next year a Chinese auto plant will be operational in Mexico. An estimated one hundred thousand trucks will be produced. Most will ship to the US. How much tariff will the US collect? Nada! Thanks NAFTA.

 If oil production has peaked and can only decrease and the demand is going up then what will a country like China do? What will the US do?

 Our politicians are bought with a few junkets and promises and are beholden to lobbyists not the citizens. Our politicians are like frogs in a pot of cold water, they won't realize the temperature is going up until we are all cooked.

Offline Furball

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #177 on: January 16, 2008, 12:47:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rstel01
It was a win-win for the Iranian government. If Captain Rodgers did not shoot the airliner down, the 3-pack of combat planes has a clear shot into the convoy and group sinking American ships and Kuwaiti shipping under the US flag.

If a shoot down occurs, the US Navy is demonized in the world press as killers of civilians (as occured).


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Offline Excel1

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #178 on: January 16, 2008, 05:22:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
What is a big question for me is would a body in a seat float?

In all reports I've seen of airliner crashes in the ocean the bodies have been through such violent forces that often the clothing is ripped off them and none have been still attached to seats. I'm no expert but your comments rstel01 on this particular detail are what leads me to question your entire story.
 


what you say gels with the news reports at the time of that incident that i remember i.e lots of naked bodies left floating in the sea from the shoot down.

Offline ghi

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US Navy nearly fires on Iranian Ships
« Reply #179 on: January 16, 2008, 01:56:17 PM »
i wonder if this laser defense systems are already operational and in use in Navy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVxZ9IHTH2E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcmI6UnR4gg&feature=related
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 02:07:29 PM by ghi »