Dems, do you really want this?

[LePaul]

The reason we are paying close attention to illegal immigration is due to the obvious terror threats.  The border is pourous and the 9/11 terrorists exploited the visa program as well.  (We voted to add better protection and new fences.  Then the Democrats defunded the approved fence program.  Nice, eh?)

So there's one angle.

And the other is simply financial.

While I know there are many immigrants who want to come here, work and pay their fair share, not all do.  Many wish to come here, elude taxation, reap free services and persuit this "Im entitled to it" attitude.  This goes hand in hand with the liberal democrats mantra.

Those of us who work for a living, pay our taxes and abide the law find this blantant behavior, as well as protests demanding anmesty, truly outrageous.

Breaking the law should always have consequences, such as the illegal immigration.  Ship em home.  That's the law.  Let's enforce that for once, rather than playing us the "awwww"/sympathy angle in the media.

Like Steve, I work in healthcare and can tell you how hard we get hit with folks who need our services and cant pay.  Nor will they ever.

[Brownshirt]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Are you voting on the past?

I thought prez can have only two terms in the US?

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, as long as they are available to hire, people will keep hiring them.  There's a big difference between the two.  

Sure, it will be expensive immediately as they all get kicked out.  But soon, someone will invent a process for each of those things which will lower their cost.


But then again, asking a socialist to understand a free market is like asking a Monkey to understand calculus.  


Don't assume that most of the Republicans today are right wing.  A lot of Republicans supported the back room amnesty bill that ALMOST got pushed through.  If it weren't for public outrage, they would have had it.

Lasersailor, I would say that the amnesty bill wasn't pushed through on the republican side, because of their bleeding hearts; It was because of the bleeding wallets' of some of their constituents. Greedy bastards' that are willing to spend some money on buying a congressman's vote, because they figure they can make it back and then some, in the long run. By hiring Illegal aliens', rather than the lawful citizens' that pay taxes, and are legal to work in those jobs. Think of it this way; If all the jobs' that were currently held by illegals' were to be turned over to Law-abiding U.S. citizens, What do you think the total effect on the economy would be? 10$ a gallon milk? Maybe, maybe not...because now all of those jobs are contributing to the tax base, the money earned by those people stays' in The U.S. and does not get sent to Mexico, So business's here get more business in turn. You might be able to say that the tax burden on everyone could go down a bit, with the increased tax base.

(It's hard to gauge the total overall effect on the economy because of various uknown factors, such as the ones inflicted on our economy today-our steadily declining stock market, the credit/banking crisis, our weakening dollar...)

[AquaShrimp]

How does developing a renewable alternative fuel source equate fiscal disaster?    Something that really surprised me about Hillary, she is really strong on promoting science and technology.  Thats what this country needs.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Lasersailor, I would say that the amnesty bill wasn't pushed through on the republican side, because of their bleeding hearts; It was because of the bleeding wallets' of some of their constituents. Greedy bastards' that are willing to spend some money on buying a congressman's vote, because they figure they can make it back and then some, in the long run. By hiring Illegal aliens', rather than the lawful citizens' that pay taxes, and are legal to work in those jobs. Think of it this way; If all the jobs' that were currently held by illegals' were to be turned over to Law-abiding U.S. citizens, What do you think the total effect on the economy would be? 10$ a gallon milk? Maybe, maybe not...because now all of those jobs are contributing to the tax base, the money earned by those people stays' in The U.S. and does not get sent to Mexico, So business's here get more business in turn. You might be able to say that the tax burden on everyone could go down a bit, with the increased tax base.

(It's hard to gauge the total overall effect on the economy because of various uknown factors, such as the ones inflicted on our economy today-our steadily declining stock market, the credit/banking crisis, our weakening dollar...)

While that's a possibility, I tend more to believe that the republicans thought that they would be gaining a huge voting base.

[lazs2]

It proves that she thinks that women are more equal than men and that illegals are just another vote.

lazs

[SteveBailey]

What do you think the total effect on the economy would be? 10$ a gallon milk?

This is vapor.   BS

If illegal aliens are the saviors you  and others claim them to be, why didn't prices on things like milk drop dramatically when illegal aliens started invading the workforce in significance?  where  is the graph of milk prices steadily declining as more and more illegal aliens enter the work force?  
Where?

[bj229r]

Well it's just the point I'm trying to make. Illegal immigration is just being used as a "campaign slogan" by the Republicans. If they were actually going to do anything about it, well don't yea think they would have already done it?

"Republicans" covers a lot of territory. From your (Crockett) aspect, ALL of them are 'right-wingers'----but the ones who have squealing HAD it with the open border and the 'bridge-to-nowhere' spending (moi, for one) are CONSERVATIVES, and without them, none of those panderers gets the GOP nomination.

Nothing was done about it before, because Bush wasn't behind it, nor was at least 1/4 of the Republican portion of the Senate---They were so out of touch with the folks who voted them in that they thought last spring's amnesty bill was going to well-received. The inside-the-beltway crowd actually thought the country was behind the amnesty bill.: 20-30 million illegals in the USA, and unemployment rising...I wonder who gets laid off first? THEN social services will be supporting these people---even when they were working, for every dollar an illegal earns he/she costs state/local/federal government 2 dollars. Even McCain admits he blew it by advocating the afore-mentioned bill, and he promises to seal the border before anything else, as has Huckabee, who can also read poll results. Not sure of Rudy

These illiterate 3rd world people help business to some extent, but at an overall negative to the public

[crockett]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
None taken.  Conservatives have been screaming about it for years.  Repubs "talk tough" about it to try to appease the conservatives. The conservatives are just as fed up  w/ Bush's non action as anyone else... moreso in fact becuase we feel so betrayed by Bush.

Please understand, Bush may be a republican, but he is not right wing, not a conservative.

Exactly what did we do before all this cheap labor?  Illegals largely replaced unions in the meatpacking industry but I noticed no drop in meat prices. Other than saying something "completely speculative like: imagine what the prices would be." Why didn't prices go down?  Show me this fantastic benefit of which you speak.


Umm this law went into effect in Az on Jan 1.  illegals started leaving before this as a result

Yea I fully understand what you are saying.. Same thing happens in the construction industry here in Florida.

The problem is, AZ has yet to see what the long term effect of those illegals leaving will do to that states economy. Which is the point I'm making, there is both a positive and negative effect that will be felt.

Just because they were illegals doesn't mean they didn't shop at the local grocery stores, buy gas at the local gas stations.. Pay income tax and social security, not to mention rent homes ect.ect..

So for every job that's opened, (granted a low paying job) another job is effected because there are less customers.

It will be interresting to see how it works out in Az a year from now, if indead they are actually leaving. If it works well then it will be a model for other states to follow. It's good they are atleast trying something.

btw what is the industry that these illegals are working in Az?

[crockett]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
This is vapor.   BS

If illegal aliens are the saviors you  and others claim them to be, why didn't prices on things like milk drop dramatically when illegal aliens started invading the workforce in significance?  where  is the graph of milk prices steadily declining as more and more illegal aliens enter the work force?  
Where?

It's all about profits man. Why would they need to lower their prices, you forget this problem has come about over a long time. It just didn't happen over night.

Another thing, just because they might use illegal workers, doesn't mean they are paying them $2.50 a hour. Most illegals have fake id's /SS #'s so they are getting paid at least min wage and taxes /SS are taken out of that.

These companies aren't using illegals just so they can pay them $2.50/hr. They use them, because the illegals are willing to work at a low wage. It doesn't mean there are no Americans whom can't fill those jobs, but most Americans aren't willing to do that work that cheap.

You go from paying them $5.50 to $8 dollars an hour to then paying a union worker $10 to $15/hr.. Then tell me the price of milk and eggs isn't gonna go up.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by crockett
It's all about profits man. Why would they need to lower their prices, you forget this problem has come about over a long time. It just didn't happen over night.

Another thing, just because they might use illegal workers, doesn't mean they are paying them $2.50 a hour. Most illegals have fake id's /SS #'s so they are getting paid at least min wage and taxes /SS are taken out of that.

These companies aren't using illegals just so they can pay them $2.50/hr. They use them, because the illegals are willing to work at a low wage. It doesn't mean there are no Americans whom can't fill those jobs, but most Americans aren't willing to do that work that cheap.

You go from paying them $5.50 to $8 dollars an hour to then paying a union worker $10 to $15/hr.. Then tell me the price of milk and eggs isn't gonna go up.

It can be kept as it is now, only if the company is willing to cut fat out where it can (executive salary cuts, anyone?) or accept a little bit less of a profit margin. The real question is, will companies' simply use this as an excuse to raise prices.

If illegal aliens are the saviors you and others claim them to be, why didn't prices on things like milk drop dramatically when illegal aliens started invading the workforce in significance? where is the graph of milk prices steadily declining as more and more illegal aliens enter the work force?

LOL I'm sorry Steve, I didn't word that the best way. My point was, Alot of the price controls' are still decided by the company owners...Who might use any anti-immigration bill as an excuse. They don't have to. An american citizen can do this work, these' companies' that use illegals could pay a decent wage, but they don't want to cut into either excess overhead(executive salaries, see above) or profit margins'. In a sense, they are too greedy for our own good.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
How does developing a renewable alternative fuel source equate fiscal disaster?    Something that really surprised me about Hillary, she is really strong on promoting science and technology.  Thats what this country needs.

Where did that come from? Plus, Aquashrimp, if you remember, her husband said that he would not sign NAFTA if he got into office. He sure as hell did, thus proving that politicians' don't care a hoot about anything except getting into office, Then they're own agenda prevails, hell or high water.

Hillary's just now coming out loud with this, It's just a campaign lie.

[crockett]

Originally posted by bj229r
"Republicans" covers a lot of territory. From your (Crockett) aspect, ALL of them are 'right-wingers'----but the ones who have squealing HAD it with the open border and the 'bridge-to-nowhere' spending (moi, for one) are CONSERVATIVES, and without them, none of those panderers gets the GOP nomination.

Nothing was done about it before, because Bush wasn't behind it, nor was at least 1/4 of the Republican portion of the Senate---They were so out of touch with the folks who voted them in that they thought last spring's amnesty bill was going to well-received. The inside-the-beltway crowd actually thought the country was behind the amnesty bill.: 20-30 million illegals in the USA, and unemployment rising...I wonder who gets laid off first? THEN social services will be supporting these people---even when they were working, for every dollar an illegal earns he/she costs state/local/federal government 2 dollars. Even McCain admits he blew it by advocating the afore-mentioned bill, and he promises to seal the border before anything else, as has Huckabee, who can also read poll results. Not sure of Rudy

These illiterate 3rd world people help business to some extent, but at an overall negative to the public

That's the problem I have with today's Right Wingers bj, is they aren't walking the walk they talk. Hell I might even be inclined to vote as a Republican "if" they actually walked the walk they talked.

Granted Democrats aren't much better but they are the best pick at this point.

If the current Republicans were actually for smaller govt lass taxes and the whole nine yards I'd support them. However they aren't for that.. They try to claim it but they are worse than the Democrats with spending.

When current crop of leading Republicans claims smaller govt.. what they mean is out sourcing to big business. When they claim lower taxes what they mean is less tax for the rich but screw the middle class.

The current crop of Republicans is all for big spending for Big Business welfare, but social programs for the poor equals socialism. In short they are nothing but hypocrites the Democrats might suck too, but they are the lesser of the two evils at this point and time.

btw the Bridge to Nowhere fiasco was thanks a Republican senator, one of the most corrupt SOB's in our govt. He should be taken out back and strung up by his neck. He is the type of Republican that makes me hate that party.

[john9001]

Originally posted by crockett
He should be taken out back and strung up by his neck.  

al sharpton wants to talk to you boy.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by john9001
al sharpton wants to talk to you boy.

Zing