OK, time to build one

[humble]

Whats really important is the northbridge chipset. All P-35 boards are going to be similiar in performance. As fulmar said its more bells and wistles then anything else. Personally if you can get the abit board you listed its a great deal IMO.

You can use any memory the MB supports, the CPU is not geared to either DDR2 or DDR3. The E8400 is a great deal IMO for a cutting edge chip. Your not going to go wrong building out a box centered on it in anyway. Given the reality of the lowend chip the differential is well worth it. Again, in the context of your original posts your not going to really gain a thing based on your current usage...but the system will be significantly more powerful and need no upgrade for a good 3 yrs+ or longer while its possible that even the new AH release (if, when, if ever) will bog down an entry level dual core (I doubt it).

[alskahawk]

Originally posted by humble
Nothing "bad" at all....except thew PS is bare minimum.

It's a P35 MB which is what you want IMO. The new ATI VC's are supposed to be very good for roughly $200 or so...I'd at least look at one to compare...

With no OS that seems a bit steep but I dont know the build market...

Ya what he said! Don't scrimp on the PS. Power much more critical with these new fangled computers.

[Toad]

OK, I think I'm going to do this deal with Mwave. I'll let them assemble and test because it's worth $80 to me to have no DOA/compatibility issues.

 
 
ASSEMBLY & testing - add to cart
 assemble your selected configuration
 load necessary software/drivers
 test & check compatibility
 no refunds on assembly/testing
please allow 5-7 working days for assembly  
 $79.99 $79.99    
SKU:ASSEMTEST    
 
 
 
INTEL Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0 GHZ EM64T 1333MHZ RETAIL BOXED BUNDLE W/
ABIT IP35 PRO
STANDARD MEMORY OPTIONS
CRUCIAL 2GB KIT BL2KIT12864AA804
TESTING OPTIONS
 
 $451.50 $451.50    
SKU:MB-BA24501 -BA23927 - -BA23794 -    
 
 
 
MWAVE 6k11bboh58 (black) micro ATX mini tower w/585w power supply 2x5.25" 2x3.5" 2x3.5"(hidden) w/ front i/o connectors
EXTRA 80mm FAN(BLACK)
 
 $46.95 $46.95    
SKU:BA24486 -BA01080    
 
 
 
XFX geforce 8800 gt 256mb 600mhz pci express dual DVI/tv-out (retail) ($10 Mail-In Manufacturer Rebate Available from 01/01/08 till 01/31/08)  
 $213.63 $213.63    
SKU:4494726    
 
 
 
WD 500gb WD5000AAKS SATA2 16mb 7200rpm (bare drive)
EXTERNAL ENCLOSURE OPTIONS
DATA CABLE OPTIONS
 
 $99.99 $99.99    
SKU:AA66870 - -    
 
 
 
SAMSUNG sh-s203b/bebn black 20x double layer DVD+/-rw SATA drive w/software (bare drive)
ADD-ON MEDIA OPTIONS (NO STOCK - ESTIMATE ARRIVAL ON 1/25/2007).
 
 $29.99 $29.99    
SKU:AA71760 -    
 
 
 
     Sub Total $922.05 + $26 shipping, at my door for $948.56

Thanks for all the help so far.

Please give this one last look and critique and see if I missed anything.

As I said before, I have a legal Home XP to load up when it gets here so I don't need to line Bill's pockets one more time.

[eagl]

That buildout looks pretty good.  A couple "last" comments...

Consider keyboard and mouse changes if you're not happy with what you have.  For that matter, make sure your new mobo has the right connectors for your kb/mouse.  My favorite keyboard has a ps2 connector, and some mobos don't have those anymore.

Consider a dual monitor setup.  I go nuts now at work when I have to use a single monitor system.  Dual monitors is really nice.  The secondary monitor doesn't even have to be very good...  You can get 4:3 aspect ratio 19" LCDs for under $150 if you shop around.  Yea the cheapo ones sometimes suck but how good does your secondary monitor really have to be if you have a high quality primary one?

Case...  Make sure micro-ATX is "big enough".  You might see cooling issues with micro ATX cases that can only be solved by putting in loud 80mm case fans.  120mm fans are a heck of a lot quieter so a good case will often have room for one 120mm fan in the front and 1 120mm fan in the back.

Power supply...  You're paying under $50 for both a case and power supply, and that PSU will be feeding about $900 worth of other hardware...  Are you sure you want to do that?

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but if you have any system instability and that power supply is not a brand name known for realy good power supplies, then you may end up dropping another $130 on a high quality PSU down the road.  Do NOT get a power supply branded by a company that makes something else that is good, unless you read a really competent review of that specific power supply and buy the exact same one.  Also, cheap PSUs often fail in spectacular fashion, taking out everything from the wall socket to the keyboard and monitor.  A good power supply will go "pop" and shut itself off before ruining anything else.

Examples - I once bought a thermaltake silent purepower.  Thermaltake is a known name brand, so why not?  Well, it was a piece of crap.  Total waste of money, and my system was unstable and I never could figure it out, until I swapped it out for a seasonic.  Since the swapout a year ago, my system has had maybe 2 unexplained crashes.  

Antec... Known for cases, but some of their OEM PSUs and PSUs that ship pre-installed in their cases are total crap.  Some Antec PSUs are good though, so you just need to buy the right one.  CoolerMaster power supplies...  Well, they got well known making heatsinks and other items, but they don't make their own PSUs.   They just buy someone else's PSU and slap their label on it.  Again, YMMV but you need to be really careful buying from companies that do not actually manufacture their own PSUs or have exclusive manufacturing done for them.  Seasonic is one of only a few that I trust, both from personal experience and from reading review after review praising them.  I don't remember reading a single seasonic PSU review that said they sucked.  I don't think I can say that about any other brand PSU.  I even read about some top-end Antec PSUs that sucked.  Not seasonic.  

Again, YMMV so if you have system instability down the road, consider spending the money for a PSU from a company with a near-flawless reputation for building PSUs, not some other product.  Antec does cases, coolermaster does heatsinks, thermaltake does heatsinks, thermalright does heatsinks... If you want a case, get an Antec or Lian-Li.  If you want a heatsink, get a thermalright.  If you want a PSU, buy from a real PSU manufacturer.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Keep in mind that many of these PSU stories are myths and exaggerations. If your PSU fits the required specs you'd be foolish to pay extra for 200-300W that you don't need. These oversized PSU's are aimed towards enthusiasts who run SLI, tri-SLI or even quad-SLI systems with high-end graphics that take more power than the rest of the computer alone. Overclockers require high amps and PSU stability as they alter the voltages and push the hardware way beyond the specs. I don't think hardcore overclocking or SLI is what you're thinking here.

Actually one thing that you should try to look for in the PSU is quietness. Many of the more powerful PSU's are equipped with a high power fan that creates 80% of the noise the computer makes.

I don't know about the rest of you but I usually leave the old computer to some other familymember or sell it once it's time to upgrade. So it's really not worth the while to pay a double price for a PSU just to 'leave room' for future upgrades that may never come or will quite possibly run at lower power than the hardware used now. Each new generation that came out lately (CPU/GPU) had die shrinks and consequently lower power consumption. Future builds from Intel will ditch socket 775 so your upgrade stops there anyway.

The final thing is that the PSU will not affect your computer speed in any way, if it runs in general of course. Your computer will not be one bit faster with a 1.5 kilowatt PSU, just more expensive.

[Rolex]

You've been "Supersized."  $25-$50 more for this and that and this, but none of it adds anything to the experience or purpose you said you had in all this. AH will tax your machine the most; everything else would probably run fine on the computer you had before the one you're replacing now. Here's an example of "Supersizing": How much disk space are you using now? I'll throw out a wild guess that after all the years you've had your current computer, you have less than 30 GB of stuff on your hard disk. Do you really think that you will use 500GB of hard disk space?

Don't let these guys convince you that you'll see any noticeable difference in Aces High performance from one dual core Intel to another. Even a two-year old technology Conroe 6420 will never break a sweat running Aces High. You can run your other stuff on a Pentium II 66 Mhz like you had 15 years ago.

Power supplies can be a weak link. Not just total power, but quality of that power and reliability. A few $ more for a good brand is not a bad idea.

Mico ATX? I'd say get a standard ATX case, unless you live in a closet and use a TV tray as your desk because you don't have space for a desk. What if you want to change something later? You're an old fart who likely needs glasses just to see inside the case anyway, and your fingers don't need to be smashed and squished inside a tiny case.

You can't go wrong with a good ATX form case and an Asus motherboard. You can't get much more reliable or easier than an Asus P5B. You could put it all together standing on your head.

Uh... sound card? You going to move over your existing card, right? You don't want to use on-board sound chip because that negates all the benefits of the new processor(s).

Anyway, you can max all sliders, run hi resolution textures, see all skins  and have a great AH experience with almost any dual core Intel system. Setting up things right is probably more important than the hardware... Do you have a good router? If so, make sure you use the built-in firewall and shut down Windows firewall.

Only use IE to do your Microsoft updates and access it directly via start>All programs>Windows update. Download and use Firefox for your Internet browsing. If you are a masochist and insist on using IE, do not download the latest version. Immediately disable DirectX and active scripting except for microsoft domains.

Download and install Mozilla Thunderbird for email. Do not open or use Outlook or Outlook Express.

Do not use ActiveX (Internet Explorer) or open any email attachments and you won't need any anti-virus software. Do not install or buy any anti-virus software. It's a racket.

For Aces High, download FSAutostart (google it). You can list all running programs and services with it and follow the recommendations of what you can stop then restart for each by mousing over each item. After setting the action, set Aces High as the application to launch. You can launch FSAutostart from a desktop shortcut. It will stop the programs and services you selected and launch Aces High. It will restart everything after you quit Aces High.

Good luck and see you on the other side when you get it up and running.

P.S. Save your current settings folder from Aces High somewhere (USB Memory goober?) and paste it back again so you won't have to reset all your views and stick settings.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by Rolex
Do you really think that you will use 500GB of hard disk space?

HD space is cheap and it runs out surprisingly quick. I have 1Tb and 30% free right now.

Don't let these guys convince you that you'll see any noticeable difference in Aces High performance from one dual core Intel to another. Even a two-year old technology Conroe 6420 will never break a sweat running Aces High. You can run your other stuff on a Pentium II 66 Mhz like you had 15 years ago.

Not with AH but if he wants to play other games it's a major factor. In order to make the most out of the 8800GT a 4500 isn't going to cut the mustard. It's old. Period.

Power supplies can be a weak link. Not just total power, but quality of that power and reliability. A few $ more for a good brand is not a bad idea.

A silent quality PSU is ok, oversizing is a waste of money as it doesn't effect the speed.

Mico ATX? I'd say get a standard ATX case

My thoughts exactly unless he has wife ack.

Do not use ActiveX (Internet Explorer) or open any email attachments and you won't need any anti-virus software. Do not install or buy any anti-virus software. It's a racket.

Famous last words. You need to be super careful and NEVER open anything from the internet to survive without AV. I left my Vista box without AV and never opened anything from unsafe sources. My son, daughter or wife did. End of story. If you choose not to install AV you absolutely need to scan your box regularly with some external tools. Otherwise you'll continue internet banking happily with 10 keyloggers churning in the background and never even know it. Or get a letter from FBI that your broadband IP was used in Denial of Service attacks.

Most importantly, get Windows XP for your OS.

[Toad]

Rolex, you are correct and I know that.

That's why I titled that one post "Mission Creep".

But upon reflection, it does seem there are large leaps in tech available for small change.

The first system trial ballon I floated, the E4500, priced out about $825, a bit more maybe because I think I didn't actually have shipping in there.. maybe $850 then.

This last trial balloon, with the E8400 would be $950, about $100 more.

That's a lot of HP for a hundred bucks; it may well be worth it in terms of longevity considering how long I keep a machine limping along.

Also, the E6420 is actually more than the E8400 on Mwave; $211 vs $209. The E4500 is $122.

HD? I had a 160GB on my dead puter and I had about 35GB free. I hold a lot of pictures on the HD, mostly of dogs, pheasants and the great outdoors. I need to burn them off the HD though, because when the HD croaks.. it's a PITA.   I probably could go with a smaller HD and save $50 or so if I got down in the 160 range again. I might do that since the new one would have a DVD burner.

I did have doubts about the Micro ATX case. I could actually use my old ATX case if I decide to do a home build; it still works.  I could just slip in a good PSU; it already has 3 80mm fans. I just spec'd a case because I will probably let Mwave build/test for the aforementioned DOA reasons. I would like a silent PSU for sure.

ASUS is a good MoBo, although my one DOA was actually an ASUS. I've used ABIT and Gigabyte and been least impressed with the Gigabytes. Two died eventually to capacitor leaks but they did last me years in their defense.

I need an education on the on-board sound thing. I've always used a card, the last one a Turtle Beach (which has not been as compatible as I would like). But guys like Rude are telling me that there is no longer a need for a card, that the OB sound is fine. What's the real deal here? I can get an Audigy if necessary.

As for wife ack, we're married 34 years next month. Ack is rare, light, inaccurate and ineffective.  

As for saving settings and such, the dead puter (the Gigabyte leaker) also had some bad sectors on the HD. I think I'll transfer the remaining good data to an external HD, transfer again to the new puter when built then wipe the external and use it for a backup in the future.

So, waddayathink of the plans now?

[humble]

It's not a question of "oversize" but "rightsize". I agree completely that computing power has outstripped normal use in everything but games. Your totally wrong on disk space however. More and more things eat up space so most people have roughly 45-60G of "Stuff". If we look to the reality of downloadable content and the continueing emergence of video/photo use then a larger HD(s) makes sense.

Looking at the mwave site I'm concerned at the skimpy documentation on the case/PS in question. Might be absolutely great....then again...

Looking at the cheapest thermaltake its $30 after rebate...

THERMALTAKE wingrs 100 VG1000BNS

I'd recommend this PS out of your options...

PS

It'll run what your building just fine and give you some margin without being overkill. Note that even on a good 600W PS your only getting 18@ per 12V rail.

[humble]

Onboard sound is more and more efficient, but is a bit of a drain. On the box your building it wont matter with your usage. I'd go with the onboard and add a SC if you have issues...

[Toad]

Humble,

There's two PSU's on that page? Which one, the higher or lower priced one?

[humble]

I think either would be fine. My only question on the cheaper one is can you draw more amps on a 12V rail. Where most PS's "cheat" you is that they list a total power thats "theoretically" available but when you add it up the "485W" PS only puts out a total of 430W. This one will give you a true 600Ws and it puts the power where you need it. Ideally I'd like to see a 22@ 12V rail. The specs dont really tell you if you can draw more then 18@ (you should be able to) on a rail....just that all 4 rails will draw 18@'s at the same time (very important that any box with multiple 12V rails has this). My PS will give me 26@ on the primary but just 16@ on the 2nd rail.

The 2nd one is an "SLI" PS...its probably worth the few bucks but they're basically the same thing...i'm gonna go to the site and see what the man has available for specsheet on the 2nd...either woud be good.

[humble]

The 2nd gives you 72 amps across the 12V rail which is the same as the 1st. The only question is will the 1st give you the full 72@'s across all 4 rails.

If you read the various reviews on the OCZ  site it seems the cheaper one is basically the same...but it doesnt quarantee the SLI aspect so its possible that sightly different components are used.

After reading the reviews I'd stick with the cheaper one. Both have 3 yr unconditional "hotswap" gaurantee's. Unless your gonna run in SLI where you might need the full 36@'s per VC I doubt theres any difference at all.

These guys are making some of the best "budget" PS's in the world right now. Very good PS at an excellent price point. Yes you can get a PS for less and it might be very good...but 70%+ of the time when you lose a MB, VC or other component the real problem was the PS itself. If you look at the rockbottom price for a PS as $25 vs $75 for a good one in a $1000 build. For 5% premium your getting a PS that will safeguard everything else you bought.

[republic]

Your build looks solid  Toad, I think you'll be much happier with the E8400.  My machine has 4GB of memory (only 3.25GB seen because of Windows 32bit) and I need that for Supreme Commander and video editing...but for AH 2GB is way more than enough.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Toad if you're going to not to install AV at all, do yourself a favor and at least scan it periodically. I usually keep my AV off when gaming but then scan the computer thoroughly a few times a year. The first time in 5 years I found a virus (happened just last week) was with the oh-so-secure Vista with no AV.

Well I did have UAC disabled but still..

Not having found a virus for 5 years made me think also I'm impervious to their attacks but I was soon proved wrong.