Drivers license checkpoint

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Ripsnort


Besides, there is a reason they suspend drivers license. Enforcing it (via check point) is good IMO.

whats that phrase again?
"he who is willing to sacrifice liberty for security...."

Enforce it when you catch someone doing something wrong. then throw the book at em for all I care.
Just dont set up these checkpoints which really amounts to the states and townships sending armed gunmen out on the road to stop everyone one by one to try and find something wrong even if you were doing nothing wrong so they can demand your money.

I have all the respect for cops in the world.
Checkpoints is thew one duty they pull I have no respect for whatsoever.

But Im sure most cept the militant types would rather be off doing their regular routine.so I cant really blame the cops. Its the people who give the cops their orders to do this that need to be condemned

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by vorticon
i can see setting up checkstops down the street from bars during holidays...

 

Now in THAT instance. Probable cause can be reasonably argued.
Particularly if they are monitoring the traffic comming out of the bar.

[rpm]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
It certainly does not have anything to do with driving skill, but AT LEAST they are required to take some sort of written and physical test to get one.  That's better than learning via accidents IMO.

Besides, there is a reason they suspend drivers license. Enforcing it (via check point) is good IMO.

Then you would have no problem with a random search of your home just to make sure you have a copy of your paid property tax reciept.

[Chairboy]

In addition to the many fine points already made above, I would like to add that this would appear to be an example of presuming guilt and requiring proof of innocence.  If I have not driven illegaly, then I should be accorded treatment due my law abiding status.  If police investigators picked random citizens and secretly investigated them "just to be safe", going through garbage and interviewing neighbors and tapping phones, we would presumably be outraged.  

How does a random checkpoint differ?

[FBplmmr]

I do have a right to own a gun.

Should the police be able to enter my home to see if I have any unregistered or illegal guns?  

Alot of households probably do [have unregistered or illegal guns], better just pick an area and check all of the houses?

What will it be like in 20 years? fifty?

Will my grandkids even know what freedom is?/was?

[JB88]

Originally posted by Chairboy
In addition to the many fine points already made above, I would like to add that this would appear to be an example of presuming guilt and requiring proof of innocence.  If I have not driven illegaly, then I should be accorded treatment due my law abiding status.  If police investigators picked random citizens and secretly investigated them "just to be safe", going through garbage and interviewing neighbors and tapping phones, we would presumably be outraged.  

How does a random checkpoint differ?

it does not.

but then, how do you feel about sobriety checkpoints?

[john9001]

all checkpoints come up against the same thing, probable cause.

what probable cause do they have to stop and check you? Just the fact you are driving a car? Is driving a car now probable cause to stop you?

when i was a kid i would watch old black and white movies about Germany during WW2 and the gestapo would randomly stop people to "check their papers".  I thought "I'm really glad i live in America where this does not happen"


land of the free and home of the brave are just words to a song that no one sings now.

[Sandman]

I think the courts have looked at sobriety checkpoints and decided that it enhances public safety and therefore is allowed.

Other than that... stopping for license checks, or vehicle safety inspections, etc. are a violation of the 4th Amendment, IMHO.


As for driving being a "right". California considers driving a privilege. AFAIK, the DMV can revoke a license at their discretion, without a court decision, and no appeal. In the cases of DUI, they will revoke a license even before the court date.

[bustr]

Originally posted by Sandman
I think the courts have looked at sobriety checkpoints and decided that it enhances public safety and therefore is allowed.

Other than that... stopping for license checks, or vehicle safety inspections, etc. are a violation of the 4th Amendment, IMHO.


As for driving being a "right". California considers driving a privilege. AFAIK, the DMV can revoke a license at their discretion, without a court decision, and no appeal. In the cases of DUI, they will revoke a license even before the court date.

Just a nitpicking observation but, sobrity checkpoints are legal, but license checkpoints are not. Ok then why arent they just lieing and pulling people over for anytime sobriety checks rather than tipping thier hand about licenses. Once you are pulled over for the sobriety check, isn't refusing to show your license getting cops on youtube video acting like gestopo anyway these days? I think youtube has a whole section showing police at stops acting out our worst fears of badly behaving tyrants.

[SD67]

Here In Oz we have:
Random Breath Testing check points
Vehicle registration and road-worthiness check points
Licensing check points
We also have double demerit seasons at the beginning and end of any holiday period. You get a 10 point allowance on your license, and points gained take 2 years to be removed from the date of the offence.
Police used to need probable cause to pull people over, but that rather marginal protection was removed with the advent of portable hand held breath testing devices in the late '80's.

[AGM65]

If they want to check for drivers licenses, then set up a BAT checkpoint. They automatically then ask, "Drivers license and proof of insurance please." No legality problem there, just a breath alcohol test checkpoint.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AGM65
If they want to check for drivers licenses, then set up a BAT checkpoint. They automatically then ask, "Drivers license and proof of insurance please." No legality problem there, just a breath alcohol test checkpoint.

If they set up a sobriety checkpoint down the block frm a bar. then I would have no problem with that.

But setting up sobriety checkpoints just any old place I have a problem with as there still in all likelyhood may be no probable cause.

[Warhawk]

Originally posted by rpm
Bingo

Texas outlawed "license checkpoints" while Ann Richards was in office.

At least she got one thing right

[lazs2]

Ok..  but if they are searching for.. er.. stopping for license check then that is all they should be able to check for.. it the car smells like pot.. if the driver or passengers are not wearing seatbelts.. none of that should be any of their business.

They need a reason and that has to be the only thing they can check for.

lazs

[Sandman]

Originally posted by bustr
Just a nitpicking observation but, sobrity checkpoints are legal, but license checkpoints are not. Ok then why arent they just lieing and pulling people over for anytime sobriety checks rather than tipping thier hand about licenses. Once you are pulled over for the sobriety check, isn't refusing to show your license getting cops on youtube video acting like gestopo anyway these days? I think youtube has a whole section showing police at stops acting out our worst fears of badly behaving tyrants.

I think the sobriety check negates the need for probable cause.

Doing a license check alone lacks probably cause.

But... I'll defer to Maverick.