DA manhood challenges

[WMLute]

Originally posted by 2fly
For what it is worth I believe DA and MA cannot even be compared to each other.  (For the sake of the following statements consider ACM as the classic dogfighting since that is the way most people think of it.  The arguement could be made that an aircraft successfully bouncing an unaware player is also ACM.)


DA=1v1 ACM.

MA is about tactics and situational awareness and decision making.  ACM does not even come into the equation unless you make a mistake with one of them.  

So in the MA I think of ACM as more of a CYA than as a goal in and of itself.

In the MA, w/o the understanding of what to do in a fight you are mere fodder for those that do.

Surviving in the MA is about SA, position AND fighting.  With out the abillity to actually FIGHT you end up being just another face shooting running cherrypicker weenie which sums up pretty much 99% of the fights you find in the MA.

Why anybody would have the opinion that actually knowing how to fight 1 on 1 is not that important is beyond me.

My fav. is using my SA and position ability to FORCE said face shooting running cherypicking weenies to FIGHT.  I chuckle when they suddenly find themself with me D200 behind them and have no clue what to do, or how it happened.  If they are not nose to nose or running like heck they don't know what to do and that's just too bad.  These players are missing out what is really fun about this game.  (Aerial Combat)

It's gota suck to have to die 3-4 times to get a single kill.  One would think that you would want to learn how to kill more than you die.  You can have all the SA and Position ability in the world but if you can't fight you are going to die when you run up against someone that can.

[2fly]

I know what you mean WMlute.  I did not mean to imply that it was not important, only that it is a last resort.  If all goes well, you will never get the chance to be D200 behind me.  But of course that happens and then the "fun" is on.

[B@tfinkV]

Slapshot, i should have written 'adversity OR equal footing'. IE both disadvantaged OR equal fights.

Originally posted by FBplmmr
I have had some what I consider to awesome fights with Batfink in the DA.

What i like about them mostly is the joking back and forth and that there is no animosity or trash talking when its over.

He usually points out the things I did wrong or the few and far between things I have done correctly.

For me, during the fight I have the whole 'can't breath, sweating profusely' reaction and I am thrilled when i see his name on the roster in the DA for the chance to try again.

big to batfink and the class he brings with him to the game.

S! Plmmr, takes one to know one. i look forward to our next session very much. and stop with the modesty, your F6F of doom tears me apart.

[hubsonfire]

Reading through all of this again, it occurs to me. Aren't the "win at all costs, fight as unfair as possible" types working just as hard or harder to protect their egos?

I don't think the MA and DA relate directly. However, in the limited time I spent in there, I did learn some things, which I probably should have learned in the TA or MA, but I'm not a hardcore combat pielut. It's like everything else, I suppose. A slight change in perspective and you see a little more of things. So, you can take what you learn with you, and if you're creative, you can apply it to different situations in the MA, which can be good.

More than the DA/MA correlation, I'm concerned by the "don't fight without pronounced advantages" crowd. You realize that if everyone flew that way, this would be the suckiest game ever? Conversely, the only reason you're able to fight from an advantage, is that many others refuse to fight from an advantage. All that crap about SA trumping ACM, and "realistic tactics" just comes across as a thinly veiled rationale for being timid in a cartoon airplane.

Sorry, wandering off topic, but it just got me thinking about the perspectives of both sides in this.

[sullie363]

Originally posted by moot
You equate manhood with inputs to a joystick hooked up to a computer monitor.

I was suggesting that is what others seem to think when trying to drag somebody into the DA, as well as being a slight jab at humor.

[moot]

I flew some unfair advantage cheating bastard sorties yesterday, for a change.  Usualy I fly the 152 ignoring the odds, tending to get myself in all the disadvantageous positions I can get away with.
This time I tried to put all the odds on my side, and came out with a few 20-30 kill sorties and a bunch of 7-13 streaks. I didn't steal any kills (maybe 3-4 out of all that).
It's boring.

Hub, I win at all costs but not in the sense you seem to be saying. I'll look for all the challenges I can find and handicap myself if needed.  E.g. I don't spray.  If I have a snapshot setup, I don't just hold down the trigger.  I just stab it once (like 2-4 MK108's worth) and if I got the timing wrong, too bad.  It's not about winning at all costs, it's about finding and beating all the challenges you can, even if it means creating them yourself by e.g. giving your six.  The only real victory is the one where you've beaten every single attempt the opposition made.. anything else is arguably a fluke.
edit- Reread your post, oops.


Alright Sullie, my bad.

[Sonicblu]

My point got missed maybe because I shared my thoughts in the wrong thread. I try again anyway.
       I apprieciate the response from Mark I would enjoy learning from you in the DA.

   My point wasn't that I could not find training or that I could not learn from skyrock. Many in the DA have taken the time to help me learn. Cbizkit, batfink, sonic22, just to name a few. Murdr's help and website is great.

   My point is that "the result you get in the main arena is the meaning of the communication you have been giving."  as it refers to ho's twits lamers name calling and the such. You can't expect better  game play when you lower the bar yourself, and use sloppy over generalizations.

There is an expectation of proper game play and ACMs it can only be helped by helping with the expectation that the person you helped will become a better pilot and will have a better attitude toward you. When you call someone a ho twit it only lowers the over all game play.  

You expect a clean merge, but you don't do the same when you communicate it. You come in with a "verbal ho" or you "verbally bnz" the person. How can you expect the person not to gang, ho, or pick you the next time. I've seen it when a person gets berated on 200 or the forums they are the first ones that will get mad and make sure they ho, or vulch you the next time they see you in the MA.  You expect them to fly a certain way yet you don't hold yourself to the same standard when you berate them.

"emotion up, intelect down" Thats what some of you go for and that is what you get. Did you really expect something different in the MA? You verbally vulch them on 200 getting thier emotion up, then when the come back with intelect down and you blame it all on them.
Don't cry when the game for you has become a place where people don't play fair with you any more or you have noticed a change in game play.
My point is raise the bar.

As far as the Muppets that totally got the wrong point and just assumed.  I was invited to the DA to learn, by my brother,  he had been invited by "................" I had just got on local channel when I heard " get .......... out this isn't for you" directed and my brother. We just both left. Even though my brother reminded this person that he had just given a personal invitaion to come over to the DA. Ask skyrock he was there. My brother was Dm6.

I have asked Skyrock for help before I will be glad to let you know exactly what he said please PM me. I also asked lazer for help Ill tell you what he said also.  I am sure base on the respone I got this time from Mark that he must of been having a bad night or something. It would be hard for others to get past, some never will. You can expect the ho, vulch, pick, bnz to name a few, from them. I will continue to improve my game play. I look forward to getting to know you better and learn from all of you.

If those of you don't want to help just say so. It's ok with me. Its just interesting that you use a different standard between flying and communicating.  "join a squad or go to the Ta" lol... That proves my point. Were you really trying to help or get my emotion up. hehe I am sure it was just your sense of humor.

With respect

Daniel

P.S. I like in game channel 200 banter just as much as anyone. The personal over generalizations just lower the game play. If someone says I got ownt or am easy kill, great I try to have a comeback.  If someone says that the Ma is only full ho twits lamers and what not, well thats what it will be for them.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Shane
those kind of guys are fairly rare...

shhhh.... lala ho's don't count

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Sonicblu
My point got missed maybe because I shared my thoughts in the wrong thread. I try again anyway.
       I apprieciate the response from Mark I would enjoy learning from you in the DA.

   My point wasn't that I could not find training or that I could not learn from skyrock. Many in the DA have taken the time to help me learn. Cbizkit, batfink, sonic22, just to name a few. Murdr's help and website is great.

   My point is that "the result you get in the main arena is the meaning of the communication you have been giving."  as it refers to ho's twits lamers name calling and the such. You can't expect better  game play when you lower the bar yourself, and use sloppy over generalizations.

There is an expectation of proper game play and ACMs it can only be helped by helping with the expectation that the person you helped will become a better pilot and will have a better attitude toward you. When you call someone a ho twit it only lowers the over all game play.  

You expect a clean merge, but you don't do the same when you communicate it. You come in with a "verbal ho" or you "verbally bnz" the person. How can you expect the person not to gang, ho, or pick you the next time. I've seen it when a person gets berated on 200 or the forums they are the first ones that will get mad and make sure they ho, or vulch you the next time they see you in the MA.  You expect them to fly a certain way yet you don't hold yourself to the same standard when you berate them.

"emotion up, intelect down" Thats what some of you go for and that is what you get. Did you really expect something different in the MA? You verbally vulch them on 200 getting thier emotion up, then when the come back with intelect down and you blame it all on them.
Don't cry when the game for you has become a place where people don't play fair with you any more or you have noticed a change in game play.
My point is raise the bar.

As far as the Muppets that totally got the wrong point and just assumed.  I was invited to the DA to learn, by my brother,  he had been invited by "................" I had just got on local channel when I heard " get .......... out this isn't for you" directed and my brother. We just both left. Even though my brother reminded this person that he had just given a personal invitaion to come over to the DA. Ask skyrock he was there. My brother was Dm6.

I have asked Skyrock for help before I will be glad to let you know exactly what he said please PM me. I also asked lazer for help Ill tell you what he said also.  I am sure base on the respone I got this time from Mark that he must of been having a bad night or something. It would be hard for others to get past, some never will. You can expect the ho, vulch, pick, bnz to name a few, from them. I will continue to improve my game play. I look forward to getting to know you better and learn from all of you.

If those of you don't want to help just say so. It's ok with me. Its just interesting that you use a different standard between flying and communicating.  "join a squad or go to the Ta" lol... That proves my point. Were you really trying to help or get my emotion up. hehe I am sure it was just your sense of humor.

With respect

Daniel

P.S. I like in game channel 200 banter just as much as anyone. The personal over generalizations just lower the game play. If someone says I got ownt or am easy kill, great I try to have a comeback.  If someone says that the Ma is only full ho twits lamers and what not, well thats what it will be for them.

Daniel, I would like a PM on what I responded with when you asked me for help.  If it was negative, it definitely was out of character in that context.

Mark

[RoGenT]

When I ask people if they want to go to DA, its just for fun fight rather then to pad ego.

I don't believe myself to have ego nor will ever claim to be better then one person or another.

For example, and I am sure people have noticed this with kdweeb and I. Him and I have lot of respect for the other and have had great fights. We just like to talk friendly smack to each other lol.


I just play with respect for everyone, although there are couple that seem to need to pratice foot in mouth and learn not to be such ego manicals

[dedalos]

Originally posted by sullie363
We've all witnessed it, a well known player crying like a child about how they were killed by some "noob twit" or "spit dweeb."  What soon follows is a challenge to go to the DA to show who is really "better."  What I'm wondering is do the two even relate.  In the MA you have a total free for all where anything can and does happen while the DA is this nice controlled environment where duelers go at it in the same plane and altitude 1v1.  Even if the person crying dweeb wins, what have they proven?  The reason they most likely got killed in the MA in the first place is because they put themselves in the position to get killed, whether it be flying into an obvious 3v1 or setting themselves up to get bounced.  I'm not saying good 1v1 ACM isn't something useful, of course it can frequently nab kills.  I guess what I'm trying to get at is does going to the DA really resolve an MA issue where the whole point is almost to fight as unfair as possible.  I mean at the end of the day what matters, your ability to win in the DA or the common sense to win in the MA.  Keep in mind I don't take any of this very serious, just making an observation of the way others act.

Ohhh, just say it.  Who did you pick off?  The whines you speak off don't start until some smart arse comment comes from the picker.  So?  Who was it? did you go?

[TalonX]

I think a small manhood is to blame.   When AHII is the last bastion of salvation for one so unfairly endowed, the mere loss of a fight in a cartoon game pushes the lacking individual over the edge.  They scream at you to join them in the DA to prove he was just in the pool.....it's shrinkage!

Honestly, if I beat you in the MA, it might well have been a fluke, or you made an error I capitalized on.  No big deal.  You aren't really dead.  Just up again and come back to avenge your genetic defect.

[sullie363]

Originally posted by dedalos
Ohhh, just say it.  Who did you pick off?  The whines you speak off don't start until some smart arse comment comes from the picker.  So?  Who was it? did you go?

LOL

Actually this was just something I'd been thinking about for a couple days.  After seeing two players get into it after a furball island incident, I figured I'd make a post.