the wasted vote thing...

[lazs2]

Ok.. comes up every thread about the candidates.. lets discuss it here.

If you vote for a marginal candidate.. one who's poll numbers are a given and small... ron paul or some topless dancer say..

Yes..it is a wasted vote and yes.. it works against the party that you would rather have in if that marginal candidate did not exist.

You aren't going to win and you won't send a message.. they have you factored in already.. your fringe vote is factored in and... counted on.

so what are you left with?  two candidates.. one from democrats and one from republicans..   both seem very much alike.. both pander to the very poor and the rich contributors..  the reality is that both need to screw the worker.. the middle class.. to get what they want.  both will do so.   Our taxes will go up.. the money will be given to the worthless and illegal in our society or to defense contractors and oil men.

It will come from us.

The only point is.. no matter what they say.. they do vote and work along party lines.  the pie is split pretty much in two..  for defense and to pay for socialism.    one party cuts one part to pay for the other and... vice versa.

wars...defense.. your-0-peeeans don't pay for em.. they need every cent for growing socialist programs.   we could be like them.   except..   we can't.. our population is not like theres.. we would be a pidgeon feeder in the middle of the park.. so many pigeons we would drown in pigeon crap.  The middle class can't support the numbers of worthless that the democrats want us to.

Public schools.. we will never have good schools with public schools.. we will never have vouchers with democrats.    

taxes..  you can't pay for phony environmentalism and health care and social welfare with nothing.. you can start it for very little but..  look at LBJ's great society if you want to see the modern democrat in action...  those programs sounded very humane at the time.. very... your-0-peean...  

Look where they went... just look.  look at what they cost then (when it sounded ok) and look at what they cost now!!!   That is the "great society" that democrats have in store for us.

Republicans.. they cut social spending but boost defense.   Not so bad so long as you can reign em in and keep em from being world police.. They may have learned.. we may have learned our lesson... this time.

On thing for sure.. democrats want higher taxes and republicans want lower taxes.  

The trend now for democrats is to simply call em fees..  every agency that they come up with (for our own good) has "fees"  

Soon... very soon... every single one of us will have $2 a gallon added to a gallon of gas to "combat man made..." whatever.. mostly to give jobs to college girls.    

soon... very soon..  we will all pay $150 a month sewer bills.  It will combat imagined threats.   It will keep ocean beds from getting salty or less salty.. it will make sure that every insect is protected.

Soon you will be driving on toll roads cause the countless billions you give in tax is being spent on social programs..  

democrats are running toward this..  republicans are being pulled toward it barely dragging their feet.. the activist lawyer groups are holding the reins for both parties.

Democrats will appoint (gleefully) the most insane activist liberal judges the world has ever seen.

I just want to slow the tide..  I will hold my nose and vote republican no matter who gets in.

lazs

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lazs2


Yes..it is a wasted vote and yes.. it works against the party that you would rather have in if that marginal candidate did not exist.

You aren't going to win and you won't send a message.. they have you factored in already.. your fringe vote is factored in and... counted on.

lazs

what am I left with?

My concience and my honor.
In knowing that I yes indeed sent a message.

That when all has been eroded by both sides and our liberties are completely gone.
At least I can say I stood up and said "no" rather then be a one of the sheep and just go along with the program of the big two.

Yes Laz. those of us who do vote for other parties do send a message. And that message is getting stronger.
As I stated in another thread I am seeing more and more of them "saying" they want to reach across the isle and work with the other party AND the independants.

Yes I know saying and doing are two seperate things. But the mere fact they are aknowledging the independants is significant as it wasnt too long ago that they wouldnt even be mentioned at all.

Independants are starting to be noticed.

So yes they are sending a message

As the independant movement gets stronger. And it is getting stronger.
They will have to be more then just factored in.

[lazs2]

but is that message getting stronger?   the primaries send the entire message.

It is where you can vote with little penalty for "conscience"   ron paul has won nothing.. even when nothing is at stake.

If the same number vote for him.. unlikely.. in the real election..  it will be meaningless.

Honor? conscience?   what honor is there in letting a democrat get in?  what good is that for my grand daughter?  never mind me..  I am more at the end than the beginning of my life.

All I have to do is move a little out on the outskirts ..  away from the population centers.. a.. well and a septic tank and some solar power at my paid off place a little off the beaten path and I can live out my life while the democrats and socialists are picking over your bones.   I will be dead before they get around to me.

If the bad guys vaporize a city... it will be a blue one and no where near me.

I can get by no matter what soooo.. vote your "conscience" .. you cant really hurt me.. I can get by... I spent my life making sure I could.    

Just don't you dare... don't you dare act outraged and surprised by whatever a democrat pres with a democrat congress and liberal judges comes up with.

lazs

[AKIron]

The fat lady ain't sung yet but she is warming up.

I'm still holding hope for Romney to beat McCain but it's withering.

[sluggish]

Originally posted by AKIron
The fat lady ain't sung yet but she is warming up.

I'm still holding hope for Romney to beat McCain but it's withering.

Then tell Huckabee and Paul to get out.  If you get rid of those two Romney wins hands down.  I swear that mccain has promised Huckabee a juicy cabinet position if he doesn't drop out...

[AKIron]

It's too late. Neither will concede before Tuesday.

[Speed55]

Check your states voting record.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/

Republicans haven't counted in my state for the past 24 years.

So either way.. i vote for Ron Paul.  Then i vote for McCain or Romney, and a democrat wins anyway.

I voted for Dole, and clinton won.   I voted for Bush Sr. and clinton won.

[bj229r]

Holding my nose and voting for McCain is like catching my wife banging the pool boy, THEN accepting her apologies and letting her back because now she  wants to be good wife. Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Paul Stevens are libs who prolly want to retire, and are desperately wanting a Democrat president in place before they do so, and as long as it isn't Alito, Roberts, Thomas or Scalia, status quo will remain. (Ok, Kennedy also, who seems to be a fence-sitter) I doubt if our brave senate minority could get thru an actual conservative anyway, as McCain, sadly, is probably more conservative than most of THEM

[myelo]

If you vote for the Republican nominee and the Democrat wins, is your vote wasted?

If you vote for the Republican and your wife votes for the Democrat, are both your votes wasted because they cancel each other out?

If you vote for a candidate that ends up winning by more than a 1 vote margin, is your vote wasted because they would have still won even if you didn't vote, so what did you accomplish?

The purpose of voting is not to pick the winner. Voting is exercising your conscience.

The only wasted vote is the vote you didn't cast because you were too lazy to get out and vote.

[eagl]

In the primaries, it's not wasted because you can get even marginalized candidates enough delegates that they get the right to speak at the party convention.  That ensures that their viewpoint and opinions will be heard, and possibly incorporated into the overall party position.  It shows the party how much support a set of ideas may have even if the candidate forwarding those ideas is not electable or otherwise very popular.

That's why a primary vote for Ron Paul is a great idea if you like anything he says that the other candidates are ignoring.

In the general election, I think that classical game theory leads to the conclusion that voting for the lesser evil is better than voting for an ideal outcome that is unlikely.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
what am I left with?

My concience and my honor.
In knowing that I yes indeed sent a message.

That when all has been eroded by both sides and our liberties are completely gone.
At least I can say I stood up and said "no" rather then be a one of the sheep and just go along with the program of the big two.

Yes Laz. those of us who do vote for other parties do send a message. And that message is getting stronger.
As I stated in another thread I am seeing more and more of them "saying" they want to reach across the isle and work with the other party AND the independants.

Yes I know saying and doing are two seperate things. But the mere fact they are aknowledging the independants is significant as it wasnt too long ago that they wouldnt even be mentioned at all.

Independants are starting to be noticed.

So yes they are sending a message

As the independant movement gets stronger. And it is getting stronger.
They will have to be more then just factored in.

And as it gets stronger, the other voters who have lost hope might just end up voting their conscience the next time. Eventually the best candidate wins and we stop our bleeding.

Voting for the less of two evils? I doubt our founding fathers envisioned this pessimistic outlook.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by myelo
If you vote for the Republican nominee and the Democrat wins, is your vote wasted?

If you vote for the Republican and your wife votes for the Democrat, are both your votes wasted because they cancel each other out?

If you vote for a candidate that ends up winning by more than a 1 vote margin, is your vote wasted because they would have still won even if you didn't vote, so what did you accomplish?

The purpose of voting is not to pick the winner. Voting is exercising your conscience.

The only wasted vote is the vote you didn't cast because you were too lazy to get out and vote.

Bingo!

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by myelo
If you vote for the Republican nominee and the Democrat wins, is your vote wasted?

If you vote for the Republican and your wife votes for the Democrat, are both your votes wasted because they cancel each other out?

If you vote for a candidate that ends up winning by more than a 1 vote margin, is your vote wasted because they would have still won even if you didn't vote, so what did you accomplish?

The purpose of voting is not to pick the winner. Voting is exercising your conscience.

The only wasted vote is the vote you didn't cast because you were too lazy to get out and vote.

exactly.

[AWMac]

Screw them all. I say WE as Americans do something so dam sneaky and underhanded that would break the necks of all the Politicians as they spin.

Stick it into both Parties butts...

That WE pick one uncaring unconcerning inDUHvidual and write in his name and when he gets elected he's as screwed as we are already!

Write in suggestion:













SKUZZY '08



Mac

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lazs2
but is that message getting stronger?   the primaries send the entire message.

It is where you can vote with little penalty for "conscience"   ron paul has won nothing.. even when nothing is at stake.

If the same number vote for him.. unlikely.. in the real election..  it will be meaningless.

Honor? conscience?   what honor is there in letting a democrat get in?  
Just don't you dare... don't you dare act outraged and surprised by whatever a democrat pres with a democrat congress and liberal judges comes up with

lazs

For that matter. what honor is there in letting a republican get in?

What good is that for my daughter?

Both sides are eroding this country.
by voting one side or the other you ony contribute and condone  that erosion. The continued path of loss of liberty.

Yes the message is getting stronger. Again for the independants to even be mentioned by the big two it has to be.

They used to never even get mentioned at all.
So they must be getting noticed. As is the message.

True maybe they dont stand a chance this election.
But even a baby must crawl before it can walk.
And it has to start somewhere.
Before a baby can go from just laying ont eh floor to crawling to walking it has to first try. to attempt to make that transition.
Without at least those first  attempts. Nothing happens.

If all anyone ever does is follow the path of the sheep. Nothing happens ever. Nothing will ever change.
It will only get worse and worse untill there is nothing left.

Someone has to make that attempt and be a part of it. Or nothing ever happens.
I'd rather be on the side that at aleast attempted to make a change rather then just be one of the sheep condoning the status quoe voting for evil reguardless of side.

What you see is a movement and a voice that is building.

It is arguable that Perot could have won the election if he didnt pull the "Im in, Im out, Im in agai routine.
I know several who voted democrat instead of Perot for that reason alone.

The problem in voting for the lessor of two evils just to keep the other out is in the end. You're still voting on the side of evil.

Better to die fighting for liberty then to live under tyranny.

And Tyranny is exactly where we are headed with the two big players now no matter which way you slice it

And you sir. dont ou dare be outraged and surprised  with whatever a republican pres appointed ultra conservative judge comes up with.

both sides ignore outright the consitution.

When it comes to the lessor of two evils. I'd rather side with the one that isnt evil