La5 and LA7

[Tilt]

Krusty the only difference between the B20 and Shvak should be the weight of the cannon its self.

the rpm (per gun), velocity and actual shell are all the same.

[Krusty]

I'm sure I've read otherwise. Including comparisons on this BBS.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Krusty
I'm sure I've read otherwise. Including comparisons on this BBS.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

Both use the same round (20x99R) and have identical ROF.

[Krusty]

I stand corrected, they use the same round. However the ballistics on the SHVAK are a major stoppiing point for the 2-gun version. It is like moving from MG/FF to Hispanos. I always get single-ping kills in the B20 version and have to land half a dozen hits with the SHVAKs to get any kills. Also the same goes for the LA5 (same SHVAK guns)

[Tilt]

Even though I fly lavochkins in AH almost exclusively my gunnery is so poor I cannot comment on any difference in balistic effect within game.

All I can say is that in RL there was none.

perhaps some tests v  /.target ?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
200 Niki's produced and it isn't perked.

418 N1K2-Js were produced actually, and more than 1000 N1K1-Js.  Oddly enough, 100% of N1K2-Js had four Type 99 Model II 20mm cannons.

Less than 250 C.205s were built.  Less than 50 Ta152H-1s were built.  Perking is done based on performance, not numbers.

The issue isn't number built, it is how common a given loadout was.  The fact is that only about 5% of La-7s had three B-20 20mm cannons yet nearly 100% do in AH.


Heck, there were about 500 Ki-84-Ib fighters built, each armed with four Ho-5 20mm cannons, that is one in seven, proportionally three times more common than the three gun La-7 and numerically twice as common, and we don't even have that armament as an option in AH.

[trax1]

I hope they do perk the La-7, when you compare it to a perk plane like the Temp they are very similar.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by trax1
I hope they do perk the La-7, when you compare it to a perk plane like the Temp they are very similar.

I don't think the La-7 as a whole should be perked.  It's usage doesn't indicate that kind of need.  Just the very rare in reality, extremely common in AH loadout should be perked.

[hubsonfire]

From a Berezin/Shvak discussion on these boards

It's not just weight. In the La7 weight is negligable between the two. The difference is stopping power, round-per-round damage, and ballistics. The 2-gun option has bad ballistics. Rounds drop a lot more. They do a lot less damage as well. In the same session (some time ago) I upped a 3-gun, a 2-gun, a 3-gun, a 2-gun (etc) to compare. I would have a harder time hitting any angle or deflection shot with the 2-gun setup. Coincidentally, when I *DID* hit, it did less damage (I landed no less than 20 hit sprites from a P51's prop to it's rudder, I don't care if they were scattered, 20 should have done something, but not a single thing fell off or started leaking). The 3-gun option has faster rounds or something, they fly "flatter" and with a better trajectory. This allows much easier much simplified shot setups. They also almost always destroy/maim on the first burst [fighter targets, not bombers].

In another discussion, it is stated as fact that the B-20 fires a round that is 4 times as effective as the Shvak's ammo.

That should settle that discussion.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
From a Berezin/Shvak discussion on these boards



In another discussion, it is stated as fact that the B-20 fires a round that is 4 times as effective as the Shvak's ammo.

That should settle that discussion.

Sorry Hubsonfire but that proves nothing..................

If there is a difference in AH (which I doubt) then maybe we can seek HT's assurance that it will be rectified in the new release.............

Both have the same round 20 x 99R
Both have the same RoF 800 rpm
Both have the same length of barrel ** (velocity related)

**In fact the std B20 was shorter over all than the Shvak and could have had a longer barrel (than the Shvak) if the ammo boxes could have been moved. However its clear that they could not all have been moved so the third ammo box was added behind the position of the normal two feeding the Shvak's. Leaving the ammo box to muzzle distance the same for both types of cannon.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Karnak
418 N1K2-Js were produced actually, and more than 1000 N1K1-Js.  Oddly enough, 100% of N1K2-Js had four Type 99 Model II 20mm cannons.

Less than 250 C.205s were built.  Less than 50 Ta152H-1s were built.  Perking is done based on performance, not numbers.

The issue isn't number built, it is how common a given loadout was.  The fact is that only about 5% of La-7s had three B-20 20mm cannons yet nearly 100% do in AH.


Heck, there were about 500 Ki-84-Ib fighters built, each armed with four Ho-5 20mm cannons, that is one in seven, proportionally three times more common than the three gun La-7 and numerically twice as common, and we don't even have that armament as an option in AH.

You agree with what I posted.   I guess I should have been more "direct".    Performance is the factor on "perking".

[mg1942]

perking La-7 = perk other mid-late 1944 to 1945 "late war" planes

Bf 109K
Bf 109G-14
Fw 190D-9
Ta 152

Spitfire XIV
Spitfire XVI
Tempest

P-51D
P-47D-40
P-47N
P-38L
F4U-1D
F4U-1C
F4U-4
FM2

N1K2-J
Ki 84

La-7


Yes, I know my dates

[Bronk]

Originally posted by mg1942
perking La-7 = perk other late war planes too many to mention in the list.

Erm , just the 3 gun. Ya know the rare as hens teeth one.


Edit: and we don't have a true '45 spit. If we go with boost settings.

[Motherland]

Originally posted by mg1942
perking La-7 = perk other late war planes too many to mention in the list.

Only Spit 8&16. People like to use the "Eventually we'll all be flying P40's" argument, but, in reality, the reason people want the late Spits and La7 perked is because they out-everything everything. Sure, the 109K can climb better, and the Zero can turn better, and the Jug dives better, but, you have more of a chance of not being in a favorable position and fighting what is very much an uphill battle in the 109K for example, whose only edge against the La7 for example, is climb rate. The La7 has better zoom, turn capability, top speed, etc.... Put two non-uber late war planes against each other, such as the P47N and the 109K4, the Jug has better zoom climb, top speed, and highspeed manueverability, and the Kurfürst has better acceleration, climb rate, and low speed maneuverability. Much more of an interesting matchup and a much fairer fight.


Edit:BTW, you put the FM2 on the list of perk-able late war planes.
Are you on drugs?

The G14? Dora? Pony D? Jugs? None are even close to being perkable. They all have very clear drawbacks as well as strengths. The La7 and the Spixteen (and 8) have drawbacks, but they are not numerous and are certainly are not achilles heels, like the lack of lowspeed maneuverability on the Dora and Pony, poor acceleration of the Jug, Dora and Pony, small ammunition load of the G14, and not even the G14 has lowspeed manueverability that matches the Spixteen and La7 despite the fact that it is slower.

[mg1942]

Originally posted by Bronk
Erm , just the 3 gun. Ya know the rare as hens teeth one.

I can live with that, you just have too many people here saying perk LA-7 as whole.