Author Topic: Unperk the Spitfire Mk XIV (Read 7436 times)

Rosscoe1 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2008, 09:29:19 AM »

Agreed, un perk.

Krusty · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2008, 10:00:32 AM »

[EDIT: Opinion alert!]

Disagree. Just because it doesn't turn like a spit5 it's not perkworthy? If it were named "numptydoodle.14" would it be any less powerful? About the only time I die in a spit14 is when I make a really stupid blunder. I use to fly it a lot. Several tours it was the only perk ride I flew (my reward, if you will).

It's a monster. Just because it doesn't turn like an early spit doesn't mean it's not one of the best (if not THE) climbers in the game, wicked fast, has 2 of the strongest 20mms in the game with the best trajectory, 2x 50cals with plenty of ammo to back them up, great visibility.

Except for roll, it's quite a bit like a -4 hog. Top tier, regardless of what the kills/deaths show.

Oh, and perhaps the lack of use on the Ta152 is more influence by the horribly buggly flight model, completely unstable flying characteristics, and not really being worth any perk price (self-limiting).

No, I don't think kills/deaths says much about a plane, because depending on how you look at them it could mean anything. 90% of newbies jump in an la-7, driving the deaths way up. Would you start thinking the La7 is any less potent if we got a sudden surge of 1000 newbies that droves the "deaths' Up without many additional "kills"? No, the performance stays the same.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2008, 10:51:54 AM »

So the Spit is a much better plane than its stats suggest, because most people flying the La-7 are noobs? That is some odd logic.

Krusty · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2008, 10:53:40 AM »

No, that's a simplified way of stating it to try and twist what I've said. If you're not contributing stop trying to trash things.

Karnak · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:30:22 AM »

If the Mk XIV is as good as you claim, why is its usage and kill/death such crap? You keep focusing on the kill/death ratios, but I supplied usage numbers as well.

I think you're wrong. It is good, but nothing worth perks.

Krusty · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:50:40 AM »

Your usage numbers ARE kill/death numbers.

You keep bringing it up.

I sure wouldn't mind a smaller perk, but the plane is definitely worthy of perkage. Hell it's way better now (~15) than what it was way back!

BlauK · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:51:56 AM »

La-7 and Spit16 would deserve the perks much more than Spit14.
Yup, I agree on unperking 14.

Karnak · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:56:48 AM »

Krusty,

Quit dodging the question. If it is as good as you claim, why do its numbers suck?

I'd rate the Spitfire Mk XIV as follows:

WEP Speed Low: Good
WEP Speed High: Excellent
MIL Speed Low: Average
MIL Speed High: Average
WEP Climb: Excelent
MIL Climb: Average
Firepower: Good
Handling Slow: Fair
Handling Fast: Poor
Visibility: Good
Fuel Endurance: Poor
Durability: Extremely Poor

Krusty · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2008, 12:39:56 PM »

Karnak, quit shifting the focus of your attack to me (aka dodging the question).

I wasn't dodging your question. I answered it. You asked me why I was bringing up kills/deaths, I replied "I'm not, YOU are."

You assume that the performance is linked with use. The 163 turns tighter than a zero, easy as pie to fly, climbs 20x faster than anything, can kill an entire formation of bombers in a second (or dogfight with any fighter in the game with ease). Considering HQ fields are very often a sector away from the front line on medium sized maps, they get a lot of use. Yet they would not warrant a perk by your numbers.

So the burden of proof is on you. YOU seem obsessed with kills/deaths. Prove it's the end-all, be-all of plane performance indicators. You haven't, and IMO you can't.

You want to petition for a perk-free spit14, do it. Just don't go cherry picking numbers to try and prove it.

P.S. You used to think the spit14 was worthy of a perk level many times what it currently is.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:02:30 PM »

What is it about the 14 that would have a negative effect on gameplay if it wasn't perked? If perking is really about striking a balance, it's worked so well that the 14 is one of the planes you see least often in the MAs. In fact I see far more jets, rockets, tempests, 4-hogs, c-hogs, and even 234s. If the plane were such an imbalancing monster in the MAs, you'd see more of them, even with a perk cost. The fact that they are comparatively rare in the MAs suggests that the cost is too high, even though it's been reduced considerably.

I've flown it, and I, as an average pilot on a good day, would choose any of the other perk rides over the Spit. I just don't see why it is necessary to discourage its use- people are discouraged from flying it by its performance alone. I don't think the removal of its perk cost would have any real effect on its use in the MAs.

Karnak · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:09:04 PM »

No, I never advocated it being perked in the first place.

Second, I am not cherry picking numbers. I posted every relevant number we can get. And I bluntly explained the Me163's numbers, if you'd actually read my post.

Now answer my question, if the Spitfire MK XIV is as much a monster as you claim, why are its usage numbers so low? I posted all the numbers you need, now explain them since you think my analysis is so flawed.

AAolds · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:11:16 PM »

Im a dedicated SpitXiV flyer and I dont see any need to remove the perk on it, why not just perk the LA7, spit16 and Niki.

Karnak · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:13:54 PM »

Why perk them? And if you talk about usage, why not perk the #1 fighter, the P-51D?

BaldEagl · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:33:02 PM »

I was always in the unperk the XIV camp but, I've been flying it a bit more lately and it IS a monster.

I've been able to easily run down La-7's, Doras and P-51's with only a moderate (1-2K) alt advantage from the edge of icon range. And this is on the deck, not where this thing really shines.

Considering it can do this with ease, then out-climb and out-turn any of those planes once they're caught warrents a small perk price in my opinion.

Without it, the XIV will become the new La-7/Dora/Pony in the "I've got legs" catagory and compete with the XVI/N1K in the "all-around good planes" catagory. It will effectively reduce the use of 5 currently popular planes.

As to it's lowly K/D ratio and use, I have to believe that most who climb into it have no idea what it's about. They see a perked Spit and fly it like a Spit. They get killed and think "what a POS of a perk plane" and don't give it another try, reducing both K/D and usage.

I also don't think there's any comparison to the Ta-152. The 152 is not the fastest of the 190's, not the hardest hitting, not the best turning. The ONLY thing it has going for it is it's performance at altitudes that are rarely seen in the MA's.

Really, I can go either way on this but I think unperking the XIV will have a bigger impact than you might be imagining.

Just my $.02

Karnak · « **Reply #29 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:39:07 PM »

Actually, I'd be fine with the Mk XVI being perked while the XIV is unperked. I think the Mk XVI is far more perkable than the XIV. All the XIV has on the XVI is a bit of speed, in all other categories the XVI matches or exceeds the XIV.