Author Topic: Unperk the Spitfire Mk XIV (Read 8036 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #45 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:10:20 PM »

Krusty,

First, stop putting words in my mouth. I never made or implied the things you say I did.

Second, either put up or shut up. Explain why the Spit XIV sucks compared to other perk planes.

Krusty · « **Reply #46 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:16:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Krusty,

First, stop putting words in my mouth. I never made or implied the things you say I did.

Second, either put up or shut up. Explain why the Spit XIV sucks compared to other perk planes.

Are you completely ignoring me, or purposefully trolling?

See this, right here:

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Explain why the Spit XIV sucks compared to other perk planes.

YOUR WORDS. Not mine. YOU are saying it sucks, NOBODY ELSE IS. YOU are making this claim that it's less capable than the other perk planes (with circumstantial evidence, sketchy at best!!) and you keep yelling at me to prove YOUR stupid claim.

YOU are claiming that the spit14 performs poorly because of a low kills/deaths. NOT ME. I'm saying your argument is false, wrong, horribly misleading, inaccurate, baseless, you name it.

Your pulling out kills/deaths means jack watermelon when trying to describe "why the spit14 sucks" and it's all you've got. So STOP telling me to "prove the spit14 sucks!!!" because you're the only one saying it.

Bronk · « **Reply #47 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:17:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

Aside from a few folks that advocate removing ALL perks, you can't unperk the spit14 without unperking the f4u4, chog, or the tempest.

BS
The Mk XIV
1. carries no ords
2. Is no speed demon off wep.
3. Flies nothing like other Mks, unlike the hogs.
4. doesn't have the 4 cannons.

If you unperk the tempest you'll not see another tiffy.
You unperk the 2 hogs you will not see a d, 1, or 1a.
Unperk the Mk 14 and you'll still see the horde of 16s. The 16 is just so much easier to fly.

Krusty · « **Reply #48 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:19:16 PM »

Bronk: anything off-wep is slow. The 262 carries no ord, nor does the 163.

Ignore the fact it doesn't fly like other spits. Call it a P-51 instead. It still out-runs all but about 7-8 prop planes in the game on the deck, outclimbs them all, outzooms most, shoots with the best, has good range, etc etc.

But, thank you for bringing up real points, other than just kills/deaths.

As an aside, yes I have noticed the Spit16 is quite uber. As is the spit8. I've said for a while the spit16 is as worthy of a perk as the la7 is.

Karnak · « **Reply #49 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:23:45 PM »

Krusty,

I offered a theory as to why.

You offer "Nuh uh".

Try to offer a theory as to why its numbers are crap.

Lusche · « **Reply #50 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:27:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

Aside from a few folks that advocate removing ALL perks, you can't unperk the spit14 without unperking the f4u4, chog, or the tempest.

You can, because the impact of C-hog and Tempest would be quite a different than that of a Spit 14.

And you can squeal and wiggle all you wannt, K/D is about the best indicator of impact of a figher on MA gameplay we have.

Spit XIV has a lousy K/D even now, when it's perk status restricts it's usage to those players that can affort flying perk planes. If you set it free you really expect to skyrocket? Do you really thing it will dominate the MA when a XVI is a better weapons platform at the altitudes the fights usually at in AH2???

And why is the TA suddenly unperked, when it was even much rarer than a Spit 14 in real life?

BaldEagl · « **Reply #51 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:28:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Krusty,

I offered a theory as to why.

You offer "Nuh uh".

Try to offer a theory as to why its numbers are crap.

I offered one in my post near the top of this page...

[EDIT] Whoops, you guys are posting too fast. Now it's near the top of the LAST page.

Krusty · « **Reply #52 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:34:41 PM »

Lusche, the fact it was perked before ever GETTING a "rank" in player use indicates the perk itself is not because of its use/overuse.

Even so, given the very similar power curve and climb charts on the 14/16, why does the 16 suck so much? Answer: It doesn't. You're trying to make a qualitative answer with quantitative data.

To quote a certain robot, "ERROR. DOES NOT COMPUTE."

Bronk · « **Reply #53 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:37:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Bronk: anything off-wep is slow. I suggest you look at doc gonzos pages. Look at the temp and 4 hog at ah combat alts.

The 262 carries no ord, nor does the 163. Apples and oranges. Jet and rocket powered ac are on a whole different lvl. Are you suggesting that they are not?

Ignore the fact it doesn't fly like other spits. Call it a P-51 instead.You cant ignore that fact, it's a spit. It still out-runs all but about 7-8 prop planes in the game on the deck, outclimbs them all, outzooms most,Yes for 5 count em 5 min then it becomes another spit. That I'll remind you doesnt fly like a spit.

shoots with the best, Irrelevant all spits cept the 1 have hizookas.

has good range, etc etc.What??!!?!?! This is one of the thirstiest AC in game.

But, thank you for bringing up real points, other than just kills/deaths.

Kills/deaths are part of it. It's not as effective as the 8 or 16 at AH combat alts. Now if most fights were at 22k you'd have a leg to stand on.

As an aside, yes I have noticed the Spit16 is quite uber. As is the spit8. I've said for a while the spit16 is as worthy of a perk as the la7 is.

People new to the game need a crutch to get started. Perking those 2 AC just makes it that much harder for them. I would however like to see a perk on the 3 gun LA.

Now whats your take on why the 109k isn't perked?
One of the fastest, best climbing and fastest accelerating AC in game , at almost any alt. OHH not to mention 9 min of wep?

Lusche · « **Reply #54 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:43:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Lusche, the fact it was perked before ever GETTING a "rank" in player use indicates the perk itself is not because of its use/overuse.

Even so, given the very similar power curve and climb charts on the 14/16, why does the 16 suck so much? Answer: It doesn't. You're trying to make a qualitative answer with quantitative data.

To quote a certain robot, "ERROR. DOES NOT COMPUTE."

You are illogical on so many levels I don't even know were to start (again)

Honestly, if all your "arguments" were presented by a new registered user, I would call "nice trolling". The sad thing is, you really believe

I can not say more than I and others already have.

Lusche out.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #55 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:46:13 PM »

"Yes for 5 cont em 5 min then it becomes another spit. That I'll remind you doesnt fly like a spit."

You meant 5 minutes at a time between engine coolings. 5 minutes of continuous WEP in a combat setting is a long time and is only very rarely needed.

Krusty · « **Reply #56 on:** February 13, 2008, 05:38:27 PM »

Lusche, don't tell me the sales of a product denotes the quality of said product. I know you are smarter than that.

You're counting numbers (quantity) not value (quality).

Karnak's entire argument is "nobody's using it (quantity) so it must not be good (quality)" and the two are unrelated, and in the realm of statistics you've just mixed two research types that are normally mutually exclusive.

EDIT: P.S. Sometimes it's cool to look at numbers, to see trends. That doesn't tell you much other than public opinion, and any president will tell you that changes often.

Urchin · « **Reply #57 on:** February 13, 2008, 06:31:35 PM »

Krusty -

Who do you need to tell you that the Spit 14 isn't a high "quality" ride so that you'll believe it?

Does someone have to take you into the DA and kick your butt six ways to Sunday in a half dozen planes for you to "believe"? Or will you then come back with "Its the pilot, not the plane!".

The Spit 14 doesn't deserve to be perked. I don't believe I've EVER advocated a perk for it (not that it matters), but feel free to search through 7 years of posts.

The La-7 is better in all respects than the Spit 14. The 109K-4 is a roughly equivalent plane, I'd still take the 109 in a fight though. The Spit 16 will take apart a Spit 14 in a fight.

The most rediculous thing about it is that the La-7 is unperked and the Spit 14 is perked. The La-7 will run down a Spit 14 and force it into a fight that the Spit 14 cannot win.

The plane isn't a BAD plane, but it certainly isn't a GREAT one. It is better than the Ta-152, but then again, what isn't?

I said for years that the Ta-152 could be unperked and nobody would fly it. I was right. The Spit 14 could be unperked and nobody would fly it either. The Spit 16 is better for the MA.

Karnak · « **Reply #58 on:** February 13, 2008, 06:57:40 PM »

No, I am pointing out that not many are using it and those that are, are doing poorly with it despite paying for it and thus being more cautious with it.

That you cannot see the connection is mind boggling.

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 13, 2008, 07:07:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Krusty -

Who do you need to tell you that the Spit 14 isn't a high "quality" ride so that you'll believe it?

Does someone have to take you into the DA and kick your butt six ways to Sunday in a half dozen planes for you to "believe"? Or will you then come back with "Its the pilot, not the plane!".

The Spit 14 doesn't deserve to be perked. I don't believe I've EVER advocated a perk for it (not that it matters), but feel free to search through 7 years of posts.

The La-7 is better in all respects than the Spit 14. The 109K-4 is a roughly equivalent plane, I'd still take the 109 in a fight though. The Spit 16 will take apart a Spit 14 in a fight.

The most rediculous thing about it is that the La-7 is unperked and the Spit 14 is perked. The La-7 will run down a Spit 14 and force it into a fight that the Spit 14 cannot win.

The plane isn't a BAD plane, but it certainly isn't a GREAT one. It is better than the Ta-152, but then again, what isn't?

I said for years that the Ta-152 could be unperked and nobody would fly it. I was right. The Spit 14 could be unperked and nobody would fly it either. The Spit 16 is better for the MA.

To take this on a practical level...

In the current AvA setup, where Each side has point's for the introduction of different A/C, one of the Allies' choices was to introduce the Spit XIV. I took one, and pitted it against the latest offerings' from the Axis (109K-4, KI-84, ME-262, N1K2) and here's what I myself noticed...

At AvA combat alts, the Spit XIV can hold it's own in the range between 10 and 20K. Not many fights' above 20, and alot of those engagements' work their way lower. At 10k and below, is where my rant starts.

(1.) This Spit has a higher wing loading than any other. It has to, the way it will snap-roll and spin, especially in a flaps' down flat scissors' at speeds' of 200 or less.

(2.) In a flat scissors', much like the one I described above, I tried to match a turn with Oldman in a KI-84, Myself in a Spitfire XIV. We entered into the manuever at about the same speed, around 250, at about 4k. Right at the edge of blackout, I had both outer wing peices' break off...and this is the only Spit I myself have ever had this happen in. Oldman's KI made the turn without incident. He mentioned to me that he'd never seen anything of the like in a spit, either.

(3.) This Spit does not like to get the nose up, like the Merlin-engined spits, either. I believe a 109K-4 will actually nose-up easier in a sustained turn.

Lastly, with the absence of appreciable amounts' of High-alt fights' in AH, I shall also cast my vote to see the perk cost be removed from the Spit XIV, because at the typical AH dogfight range (5-10k) It is at an actual disadvantage.

my .02$.