Thoughts on HQ bomber raids

[Wolfskin]

Sounds good to me. HQ and capitol city down? Game over.

[CAP1]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
On the HQ raid I flew before Talens, I managed to knock down two Me163s and a La7 with the guns of my B17s.  All it really takes are some competent gunners.  The problem most bombers face is that the workload suddenly increases exponentially when they get within 25 miles of the HQ.  They have to calibrate the bombsight, line up on target, maintain formation, keep speed stabilized, and fight off swarms of me163s.  Its a wonder any bombers get through at all!

a bit of a hijack here...sorta////////

re-read the above, and realize that's only ingame. imagine what it must've been like in RL for these brave men? i've tried, and can't. i've talked with a couple bombardiers, from b17's and b24's...and an engineer from a b17.....and they were all good at conveying what it was like.......but stilll....very brave men they were..........

thanks to all of them past and present!!

<>

[LYNX]

Wolfskin

I agree with you.  Strat bombing makes perfect sense to increase down time.  However there are only 2 factories I don't go out my way to bomb anymore.  Troop training and fuel.  Fairly pointless on the whole unless the baddies have captured your zone base.

As for HQ raids they are absolutely pointless unless you own a field next to their HQ or have destroyed every barracks at every base next to HQ.....tall order in itself.

I can understand some guys wanting to get the feel for a mass bomber raid and the subsequent fighter attacks.  That one thing but total annihilation is another.   You can do it and it's novel the first time but it's akin to pissing in the wind.  For me defeat is only popular with a black fella with a sense of humour.

As for HQ hardness it's pretty much annoying but I do remember why they  set it so.  Knights without dar for 3 days.  Knights logging off etc.  I just wish they'd bring back the teared damage model if we're to keep this hardness and freakin gazillion barracks.  At least these guys could get a morsel of value for their efforts.

[SD67]

Originally posted by Wolfskin
I am very interested in doing strategic work and not just base hopping.

I sorta feel like the war can be won easier with the enemies' resources bombed to smithereens. Problem is no one seems to have the patience for it. Or agree. I get laughed at. A lot. Seems the game is out of balance somewhat. It used to be a more viable option anyways.

Is there a squad out there with a fetish for strat bombing?

I'll certainly look around for Talon's missions


(wheehaw, first post in nearly a decade)

9GIAP is a squad that favours strat based play.
It's getting pretty disappointing now with many strats now not worth the porking.
I remember a time when hitting the fuel at a base actually had some effect. There was a time when setting up a coordinated fuel pork used to actually reduce the horde effect from base taking. It used be hard for the enemy to up hordes of La7's when there was only 25% fuel since they'd get up, have a couple of laps around the airfield and  have to land or run out of fuel.
It seems the game is becoming less friendly to strategic combat simulation and catering more to the air quake crowd where you're guaranteed 3/4 of a tank and a plane full of ammo at any base regardless of it's status.

[Oleg]

163 is widely used as HQ defender because its only plane which can climb to bombers altitude before they land at their home base. Give HQ undestractble 5 sectors "anti-bombers" radar (which will show bombers or group of bombers only) and you will face enough conventional interceptors.

[haasehole]

N.O.E.  stukka with the 1800kg. all u nits/rooks look out

[Simaril]

Originally posted by SD67
9GIAP is a squad that favours strat based play.
It's getting pretty disappointing now with many strats now not worth the porking.
I remember a time when hitting the fuel at a base actually had some effect. There was a time when setting up a coordinated fuel pork used to actually reduce the horde effect from base taking. It used be hard for the enemy to up hordes of La7's when there was only 25% fuel since they'd get up, have a couple of laps around the airfield and  have to land or run out of fuel.
It seems the game is becoming less friendly to strategic combat simulation and catering more to the air quake crowd where you're guaranteed 3/4 of a tank and a plane full of ammo at any base regardless of it's status.

Strongly disagree with a style of play that thrives on taking away the other teams' ability to fly. ENY restricts what you fly, but the old base tactical systme gave such disproportionate power to porkers that it stalled defenders more than ENY ever would. Current setup way better than that, and the Wirbelwind will even further redress the tactical deisadvantages of the defenders.




Now, not to be picky, but you're "hit the fuel" approach  is tactical interdiction. It is not Strategic at all in the term's military usage, though in casual talk some might call it "strategy."

Personally, I wish that really strategic actions -- essentially treating the zone and fafctory system like more than a milkrun target -- had more impact that they do. Unfortunately, while the current design DOES have a strategic combat layer, the effort required far outweighs the benefits gained.  Even in the subset of players who both like strategic play and understand the system, the problem is obvious -- they vote with thier feet and ignore the strats, instead hitting hagars  and towns.

Like many others, I would love to see HTC rebalance the effort/effect equation, without grounding players.

[Krusty]

How far do you go to avoid a fight? The point is to minimize risk, not REMOVE risk. Flying 32k at full speed with dozens of escorts from 35k to 40k is akin to flying 50+ spit16s to kill a single 110G.


How far do you go to avoid a fight?


Last night I had a highly cowardly B-17G pilot flying 10 sectors behind the knit lines at 35k, bombing strat.

I took a 109K up. This is the highest-alt non-152 plane the LW has. I took it for speed, climb, 30mm gun, and the ability to intercept. I am pretty sure NO other plane in the game would have suited this mission.

I was unable to catch him inside 10-15 minutes of chase. He was flying SO high that I was developing 1.0 ata and WEP wasn't doing anything.

Okay, that's one thing. That's just being scared.

How far does he take it? As soon as I get in guns range, this rock-steady target, with no lag or warping, suddenly warps 3x in a row 1k forward then back into position, spoiling my attack. In the meanwhile, while still warping he kills my radiator, 30mm, and landing gear with a single ping.

(note: He was firing from 1k+ it was only when I got into < 800 yards that he pulled his cable).


At a certain point you just have to cancel your account, throw the joystick away, and play offline.


So sure, have a HQ run at 50k! Include 500+ fighters!!!

At what point does it become a testiment to lameness rather than an awe-inspiring feat?



P.S. 262s can barely fly past 25k. Can't keep level at 30k, can't climb or attack above this alt, so they are no threat to cons above 25k. I've killed multiple 163s as a gunner in a single HQ run on several occasions. They're easy enough to shoot down. I've also lost wings many times in 163s trying the opposite.

The 163 is not a super weapon. It's just the ONLY weapon that can get to certain folks who play in a dweeby manner.

P.P.S. If the HQ raid is at a reasonable alt, you find many non-163 planes. I've seen hordes of 109s, 110s, spits, typhs, etc, all attacking HQ raids, as long as the raids are below 30k. You want less 163s? Come in out of the stratosphere.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Krusty
P.P.S. If the HQ raid is at a reasonable alt, you find many non-163 planes. I've seen hordes of 109s, 110s, spits, typhs, etc, all attacking HQ raids, as long as the raids are below 30k. You want less 163s? Come in out of the stratosphere.

You won't see less 163's just because the raid is at an lower alt. Players are not thinking "Oh, they come in at 20k, I'll be nice and up a prop plane". You will just see more prop planes attacking that raid in addition to 163's.

BTW; I do like to fight against very high altitude raids. There are very rare, but a really nice change of pace from the usual <15K MA action. I fondly remember a doghfight vs a escorting P38 I had a few months which started at 30K and went down to the deck.

Originally posted by Krusty

The 163 is not a super weapon. It's just the ONLY weapon that can get to certain folks who play in a dweeby manner.
 

Bombers are dead meat under 20k. Flying at high alt is far from being "dweeby". Actually the player has to pay a hefty investment in form of his playing time (in return for often meagre "results"), unlike other tactics like bomb&bail or Lancstuka.

[Ghastly]

In my experience, HQ Raids

a) are usually perpetrated against the most "down-trodden" of the 3 sides in the game.
b) occur primarily when one side already has a numbers advantage and most of another country's territory.
c) seem to result mostly in a number of players for the side that loses radar either logging, switching arenas, or changing sides.

As a result, what they mostly seem to do in my opinion is make guys who are already frustrated even more so. This sucks for everyone, because ENY shoots through the roof as a result of the loss of defenders, so the aggressors are suddenly limited in plane choices - meanwhile the defenders that are left get to circle around aimlessly trying to find the fight that was going strong before the radar went down.

Admittedly, I tend to mostly fly for the side that's outnumbered, so perhaps I see their negative impact more than those who are performing them do.

[MjTalon]

Originally posted by Krusty
How far do you go to avoid a fight? The point is to minimize risk, not REMOVE risk. Flying 32k at full speed with dozens of escorts from 35k to 40k is akin to flying 50+ spit16s to kill a single 110G.


How far do you go to avoid a fight?


Last night I had a highly cowardly B-17G pilot flying 10 sectors behind the knit lines at 35k, bombing strat.

I took a 109K up. This is the highest-alt non-152 plane the LW has. I took it for speed, climb, 30mm gun, and the ability to intercept. I am pretty sure NO other plane in the game would have suited this mission.

I was unable to catch him inside 10-15 minutes of chase. He was flying SO high that I was developing 1.0 ata and WEP wasn't doing anything.

Okay, that's one thing. That's just being scared.

How far does he take it? As soon as I get in guns range, this rock-steady target, with no lag or warping, suddenly warps 3x in a row 1k forward then back into position, spoiling my attack. In the meanwhile, while still warping he kills my radiator, 30mm, and landing gear with a single ping.

(note: He was firing from 1k+ it was only when I got into < 800 yards that he pulled his cable).


At a certain point you just have to cancel your account, throw the joystick away, and play offline.


So sure, have a HQ run at 50k! Include 500+ fighters!!!

At what point does it become a testiment to lameness rather than an awe-inspiring feat?



P.S. 262s can barely fly past 25k. Can't keep level at 30k, can't climb or attack above this alt, so they are no threat to cons above 25k. I've killed multiple 163s as a gunner in a single HQ run on several occasions. They're easy enough to shoot down. I've also lost wings many times in 163s trying the opposite.

The 163 is not a super weapon. It's just the ONLY weapon that can get to certain folks who play in a dweeby manner.

P.P.S. If the HQ raid is at a reasonable alt, you find many non-163 planes. I've seen hordes of 109s, 110s, spits, typhs, etc, all attacking HQ raids, as long as the raids are below 30k. You want less 163s? Come in out of the stratosphere.

Yep, 262s cannot keep up with a 30k+ HQ raid, it has trouble climbin up past 25k, and once leveled at 30k it has to THEN set up a pass on the bomber formation.

If HTC made it so that only a limited number of 163s were able to be in the air at once for the corresponding country, then i would roll HQ raids at the historical alt of 20-24k of the bombers.