Nato .308

[lazs2]

Guess I been lucky on the mini 14 thing..   Know about 5 guys who have em and none of us has ever had a bit of trouble with em except for some cheap magazines.    don't know if it matters but every one of the guys I know with one has the stainless steel versions.

What is funny is that I also know a lot of guys with SKS's.. real russian ones and we call the things "pumpkin guns"  because that is the size of the group they shoot..  very very large pumpkins.

It is weird how peoples experiances with the same equipment differ so much so often.  

There are several guns tho that everyone likes.   I like my Garand and my ruger revolvers and my kimber and old smith and wessons..

lazs

[Gman]

My experience with Mini's has been the same, very reliable, I can't even remember a single FTF with either of mine.  Accuracy, again, fairly suspect, but out to 1 or 200 meters, it'll do minute of man just fine.

As for a good 7.62 rifle, our company and a number of others are running short M14 and FAL variants, with good results from both.  I'm not a huge fan of the FAL and the failings of the adjustable gas system in certain climates, but the one I have seems to have given me a surprising lack of trouble thus far.

The Socom's from Springfield are excellent, losing only a few hundred FPS from the full length bbl's.  The penetration of the 762 vs 556 is very appreciable when firing through barriers, even glass windshields, but particularly walls and doors.  It's well worth the extra recoil and smaller magazine capacities.

When it's all said and done, shoot and use what works for you, after all, it's the operator not the tool.

[SIG220]

Originally posted by lazs2
Guess I been lucky on the mini 14 thing..   Know about 5 guys who have em and none of us has ever had a bit of trouble with em except for some cheap magazines.    don't know if it matters but every one of the guys I know with one has the stainless steel versions.

Well, as everyone knows, the reputation of the Ruger Mini rifles for accuracy was so very bad that Ruger recently overhauled and updated the design of the rifle.   Supposedly new production rifles are now better shooters.   I am not aware of any complaints from fellow shooters that I have talked to about the Ruger Mini rifles having any inherent functioning issues.  

My Mini 30 never had any problem with a decent quality magazine installed.  Unfortunately, there were some really cheap, lower quality mags made for the Ruger Minis.   And those may have accounted for any problem reports in reliability, not the actual rifle itself.

What is funny is that I also know a lot of guys with SKS's.. real russian ones and we call the things "pumpkin guns"  because that is the size of the group they shoot..  very very large pumpkins.

It is weird how peoples experiances with the same equipment differ so much so often.  

There are several guns tho that everyone likes.   I like my Garand and my ruger revolvers and my kimber and old smith and wessons..

lazs

Most folks I know who are happy with their SKS bought later production Chinese Norinco made guns, which were legally imported in the USA until 1994, when they got banned from further import.   Although very cheap, both my son and a close friend have Norinco SKS's, and they shoot quite well considering the type of gun they are.

The SKS was almost as big a failure as a standard Army issue rifle for the Russians, as the M14 was for the USA.   It was only produced in Russia from 1949 to 1955.   It was also primarily produced at the Tula Armory, and not the Izhevsk Armory where the AK variants have been made.  The AK-47 was so superior in so many ways that it quickly replaced it.   I don't know a single person who owns a Russian SKS, since they have not been made for so very long.

Smith and Wesson revolvers are classics, and should be kept in any gun collection.   New production S&W revolvers are now quite expensive to buy.  

SIG 220

[Regulator]

I have an M1A, and have never had a failure to feed.  I shoot it without even a shadow of a doubt it will work flawlessly, and that is with milsurp ammo.  Maybe I am lucky and got a good one.

Rack grade with just a little upgrading, shoots where I am it.  It is more accurate than I am.

I would recommend it to anyone looking for a good .308 win or 7.62x51 platform.

[SIG220]

Originally posted by Regulator
I have an M1A, and have never had a failure to feed.  I shoot it without even a shadow of a doubt it will work flawlessly, and that is with milsurp ammo.  Maybe I am lucky and got a good one.

Rack grade with just a little upgrading, shoots where I am it.  It is more accurate than I am.

I would recommend it to anyone looking for a good .308 win or 7.62x51 platform.

We have been discussing quality issues with the Ruger Mini 14, not the Springfield Armory M1A   I doubt that anyone here feels the M1A is not a quality made weapon.

If Nefarious had not indicated that he was unwilling to pay $1,000 for a rifle, then I would have also recommended the M1A to him, as well as the Saiga .308 AK-47.

SIG 220

[Regulator]

Originally posted by SIG220
We have been discussing quality issues with the Ruger Mini 14, not the Springfield Armory M1A   I doubt that anyone here feels the M1A is not a quality made weapon.

If Nefarious had not indicated that he was unwilling to pay $1,000 for a rifle, then I would have also recommended the M1A to him, as well as the Saiga .308 AK-47.

SIG 220

I was making a general comment about the rifle, as many have brought up this rifle and others in this thread.   If someone looks around enough, occasionally an M1A can be found under 1G, though rare.  Many swear by the Chinese versions of the M1A, and they can easily be had for under 1G.  I prefer Springfield myself.  Don't feel the need to spend the big bucks for LRB.

[Excel1]

Originally posted by SIG220
Well, but Nefarious said that his budget would not even allow for a $1,000  AR-15.  M1a's cost much more than the typical AR-15.  The cheapest base model of M1a with plastic stock is now selling for $1,300 street price.  

The M14 was the Army's main battle rifle for only 5 years, from 1959 to 1964, when the M16 replaced it.  While it still sees limited use today, as our main battle rifle, it had the shortest service record in our history.

The Saiga .308 would meet the needs of Nefarious to have an effective and utterly reliable battle rifle in .308 Winchester, and it would cost less than $500   And just how successful has the AK-47 design been??

i wasn't suggesting nefarious should buy an m1a, i was just stating that the m1a would be my preference.

yup, the m1a is expensive. for the money you would pay for one standard m1a in nz$ you would be able to buy four saiga's in .308 winchester. but i would rather have one m1a in my gun cabinet that four saiga's. i don't have anything against the saiga i just think the m1a is a better rifle- quality, accuracy, feel and fit.

saiga, molot vepr and the chicom m14 copies may be relatively inexpensive and good value for the money for .308 semis, and and buying any of these guns while constrained by a budget is fine if you really like the gun and are happy with it. but imo after having checked out all the available options if it's your second or third choice then it may have been better to wait until you can afford to get what you really wanted... or just blow the budget and get it in the first place

[SIG220]

Originally posted by Regulator
I was making a general comment about the rifle, as many have brought up this rifle and others in this thread.   If someone looks around enough, occasionally an M1A can be found under 1G, though rare.  Many swear by the Chinese versions of the M1A, and they can easily be had for under 1G.  I prefer Springfield myself.  Don't feel the need to spend the big bucks for LRB.

Buying a Chinese made M1A would seem to be so totally wrong to me.

The Chinese also make a clone of the classic Winchester 97 pump shotgun that is affordable.   And although I really wanted a Model 97, I could not bring myself to buy one.

I kept looking and looking, until I finally found a real Winchester 97 in great condition to buy.   But it cost me twice the price of the Chinese copy, even though it was a used gun, and the Chinese version was new.

SIG 220

[Rich46yo]

The SKS was not a failure by any means. While it was eclipsed by the AK in front line Soviet units its also true the SKS continued to be issued to other units for decades afterwards. And as an export the SKS was a very successful design. Go ahead and shoot one till the cows come home. It wont jam or malfunction.

                       And it was NOT a failure.

Originally posted by SIG220
Well, as everyone knows, the reputation of the Ruger Mini rifles for accuracy was so very bad that Ruger recently overhauled and updated the design of the rifle.   Supposedly new production rifles are now better shooters.   I am not aware of any complaints from fellow shooters that I have talked to about the Ruger Mini rifles having any inherent functioning issues.  

My Mini 30 never had any problem with a decent quality magazine installed.  Unfortunately, there were some really cheap, lower quality mags made for the Ruger Minis.   And those may have accounted for any problem reports in reliability, not the actual rifle itself.

Most folks I know who are happy with their SKS bought later production Chinese Norinco made guns, which were legally imported in the USA until 1994, when they got banned from further import.   Although very cheap, both my son and a close friend have Norinco SKS's, and they shoot quite well considering the type of gun they are.

The SKS was almost as big a failure as a standard Army issue rifle for the Russians, as the M14 was for the USA.   It was only produced in Russia from 1949 to 1955.   It was also primarily produced at the Tula Armory, and not the Izhevsk Armory where the AK variants have been made.  The AK-47 was so superior in so many ways that it quickly replaced it.   I don't know a single person who owns a Russian SKS, since they have not been made for so very long.

Smith and Wesson revolvers are classics, and should be kept in any gun collection.   New production S&W revolvers are now quite expensive to buy.  

SIG 220

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
The SKS was not a failure by any means. While it was eclipsed by the AK in front line Soviet units its also true the SKS continued to be issued to other units for decades afterwards. And as an export the SKS was a very successful design. Go ahead and shoot one till the cows come home. It wont jam or malfunction.

It is also still seen in combat zones around the world. Most recently I saw Burmese troops carrying them when they crushed that civil unrest last year.

Like I mentioned above, I have Three. All Chinese, two with wood stocks, One with a plastic Side folder. They all shoot great.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Vulcan
We used FN-FAL's in cadet forces (we called em SLR's), before NZ switched to M-16's. The FN-FALs are booooootiful

Didn't the NZ L1A1's get replaced by Steyr F88's? The M-16's were already in service with the SLR

 Tronsky

[Excel1]

that's right tronski, the nz army used both the slr and the m-16. the slr was the standard service rifle and the m-16s were originally bought to supplement the slr due to a shortage of slr's while the army was engaged in vietnam. as for the f88 austeyr,  the nz army didn't want it. they wanted the diemaco c7 as a replacement service rifle, but i guess cross tasy politics made the decision for them.

[SIG220]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
The SKS was not a failure by any means. While it was eclipsed by the AK in front line Soviet units its also true the SKS continued to be issued to other units for decades afterwards. And as an export the SKS was a very successful design. Go ahead and shoot one till the cows come home. It wont jam or malfunction.

                       And it was NOT a failure.

It was indeed a failure in terms of its very short service in the Soviet Army, which is the context that I was using.

After the Russians gave the Chinese and many other communist nations all the technical info they needed to manufacturer the rifle, it became a great success all around the world, especially in the Vietnam War.

One of its little known successes was its use by several Korean store owners to protect their property during the infamous Los Angeles Rodney King riots of 1992.   Units from both the 7th Army Division and First Marine Division had to occupy a big chunk of Los Angeles in order to eventually restore peace.  For a couple of days, though, things were totally out of control.

Rioters quickly learned to stay away from these Korean owned stores, once they came under fire from the SKS.

SIG 220