Intellectualist Elitists are anti-American and we just ain't a-gonna take it no more!

[Angus]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Wiki`s first cousin..on his mother`s side.

Ahh, knew I heard the name before

[lazs2]

dano... LOL...  you went to school at starbucks land and say that public school is not the problem?

so riddle me this...  if you think ADD is the problem then.. what caused it?  is it something in the air cause.. no kids had it when I went to school and.. If they did..  they sure never got treated.  

Of course you have to live in todays world but.. if you change things drastically in a few decades and things get markedly worse... do you then blame the worsening of the situation on..  on what?  evolution?  an new mental disease that swept the nation overnite?  do you blame it on "the times"?  

Or.. do you pretend that the overall teaching level and education is as good or better than it was before all the changes?  those are your choices and they are both anti intellectual in their own right.. they fly in the face of reason.

"harden up"??  LOL.. I got mine already..  I don't care what happens to you mush heads...  I have a grand daughter and I am paying to send her to a catholic school where she is outperforming the idiots in public school by two grade levels..  they even teach in english at her school.

The worst thing about intellectual eliteism is the fact that it refuses to take any responsibility for it's mistakes or.. to learn from them.. It is all about blame.. or.. more accurately.. shifting the blame.

We did not evolve or.. devolve in a few short decades.  The air did not suddenly become filled with the ADD virus..  there is less lead in our food and paint and toys than ever.   the teachers and schools are doing a crap job.

the results speak for themselves.. they have had it their own way all this time and things are only getting worse.   high school kids are functionally illiterate.   Half the college students can't find iraq on a map or know when the American civil war was.

Me and my generation read a book a month at least.. yours reads one a year at best..   So don't feel sorry for me or tell me to "harden up" cause I don't give a crap what happens to your stupid butt.

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
dano... LOL...  you went to school at starbucks land and say that public school is not the problem?

Me and my generation read a book a month at least.. yours reads one a year at best..   So don't feel sorry for me or tell me to "harden up" cause I don't give a crap what happens to your stupid butt.

lazs

Amazing, look at who suddenly feels himself elite.  A book a month?  That's laughable grandpa.  Reader's Digest, large print,  on the can doesn't count.

I find it funny, you are trying to make yourself sound exactly like what you say you despise... elitist.  Elevating yourself above everyone else on account that you think you read more..... Talk about self centered isolationism.

Also, you might want to try to read books without opinions, and those without pictures every now and again.  For such a well read individual, you certainly don't portray yourself as such.

[lazs2]

not at all..  I am not saying I am superior in the least.  I am pointing out that the education systems of different decades brought different results..  

far from acting elite... I have said over and over that people have not changed.. the schools have.  I don't think that I have to point out the irony of someone like you calling me an elitist to people on this board..  lots of coffee got spit on monitors all over the world over your last post I am sure.

lazs

[Dadano]

I spent my first 12 years in Detroit. Ever been to Detroit? It's a chithole with chithole public schools. Didn't stop me from learning. Didn't stop my parents from keeping my head working outside of school.

The point of my initial post was; it isn't the schools and the teachers, it is the failure to cope with the change that is taking place. From an analog age to a digital one.

Our youth is swimming in a constant barrage of information, and having a hard time keeping their head above water. Everyone is becoming ADD by default. It's being built into us. We could just as well call it ubermultitaskiosus. It might not be a bad thing.

I think, now more than ever, it is the falling on the parents shoulders to help their youth through it. Schools, being the large social institution in this situation, are slow to react and adapt. Whereas, the small family can, if it has the will, address the youth's immediate mental and emotional needs.

This doesn't mean helping them study every night, although there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, but the parents taking control of the youth's after school options. Or even, dare I say, moving to somewhere with decent schools.

I'm gonna go order my daily mochochoco skim milk halfnhalf chi tea latte and indulge in some Dostoevsky.  

-Seacrest Out

[Dadano]

Originally posted by lazs2
not at all..  I am not saying I am superior in the least.  I am pointing out that the education systems of different decades brought different results..  

far from acting elite... I have said over and over that people have not changed.. the schools have.  I don't think that I have to point out the irony of someone like you calling me an elitist to people on this board..  lots of coffee got spit on monitors all over the world over your last post I am sure.

lazs

Have you figured it out yet? Any tone that has connotations of thought out personal opinion gets labeled as "elitist". It is wrong to think you, as an individual, are right.

Right is wrong. Wrong is wrong. You're only "right" if you have no strong personal opinion. Make sense?

This is the problem with people drawing lines, elitist/hillbilly, republican/democrat, night/day...

It's a great way to make no ground at all in a debate. Draw the lines, hold the lines, first one to quit loses.

**************

BTW, I'm glad to hear that your granddaughter is being put in a private school. This means that her parents, really do give a chit.

Although, it doesn't mean, I can make a sweeping generalizations about all public schools being total garbage.

I know you can agree with that.

[lazs2]

you are talking around the problem and making excuses.. it is not rocket science.. the teachers and the school system have the kids for almost all of their productive waking hours and they are getting dumber... not smarter.

My parents did not "help" me to learn.. they figured that was the schools and the teachers job and.. they were right and the schools and the teachers felt the same..

I am paying for my grand daughter to go to catholic school.   It is worth it to me to keep her out of the public school cesspool.   I don't help her.. I read with her and I take her to see things and excite her imagination..  I also let her help me build things and she rides in hot rods and learns about guns.

If she has a question about school or schoolwork.. I am able to answer her questions or... help her look it up on the internet.

I know every single parent or grandparent does the same.  

The fault lies directly on the shoulders of the teachers and the schools.

Home schooling gets good results... catholic school gets good results.. public school gets crap results.  

It is not productive to make excuses for a failed experiment.

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2


Home schooling gets good results... catholic school gets good results.. public school gets crap results.  

It is not productive to make excuses for a failed experiment.

lazs

That, sir, is a completely biased opinion.

You must seriously look into what you are talking about, as usual.  Are you basing your opinion upon statistics, strict empirical data or a combination of the two?  Per average student basis?  Or just the higher IQ students?

Please feel free to show me how, statistically, homeschool or catholic schools have a higher educational rate.  

Also, just so you know, any organism evolves with each successive generation, whether or not it is apparent or not.  Human thinking, on the other hand, evolves or devolves exponentially within a generation.  See "Emancipation Proclamation" "Women's Rights" "Racial Integration".  Or on the other hand, see "Nazism" "Stalin" "Pol Pot".

Just as note... I was a product of public schools.  I graduated in 10th grade.  It was the students that held back any learning, though, I was in a very good school system at the time, which was known better than all of the catholic schools around it.  Most of the kids just didn't care, or did only what they had to to get by.  

Also, as a note, we need to get rid of this "summer off" policy.  It is old and antiquated, as few americans have crops that need harvesting anymore.  Our public school should be in session for the entire calendar year.

[bustr]

Laz,

Moray and Dano need to recuse themselves from passing judgement on the public school systems and education of the average masses. It's clearly obvious to everyone in the audience that they are on the higher end of the IQ bell curve and each an exception to the norm. But, they are arguing with you using themselves as their average human example for a control model. That is the definition of intellectual elitism you keep refering to.

[Angus]

Penguin school giving best results Lazs?

I must say this, for I think you are partially right. It boils down to the standard of dicipline. Kids that respect authority and STFU simply have more time to learn. And the Catholic schools have their support and firmness in that matter.
(BTW I am NOT a Catholic)

That said, there is always the quest for catching and forwarding the brightest minds of the crowd. This has failed and does so still.

And statistics?...well, the average knowledge of western world students (below...16?) seems to be falling....in terms of worlds history and other matters. If you need proof, browse this forum for a while

[Dadano]

Originally posted by bustr
Laz,

Moray and Dano need to recuse themselves from passing judgement on the public school systems and education of the average masses. It's clearly obvious to everyone in the audience that they are on the higher end of the IQ bell curve and each an exception to the norm. But, they are arguing with you using themselves as their average human example for a control model. That is the definition of intellectual elitism you keep refering to.

It's the culture stupid!

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by bustr
Laz,

Moray and Dano need to recuse themselves from passing judgement on the public school systems and education of the average masses. It's clearly obvious to everyone in the audience that they are on the higher end of the IQ bell curve and each an exception to the norm. But, they are arguing with you using themselves as their average human example for a control model. That is the definition of intellectual elitism you keep refering to.

No, sir.  I was simply alluding to the prospect that public school isn't that bad...or more to the point, it is what every student makes of it.  

As well, as long as you're humpin laz on the legs, you should note that he first pointed out his schooling was different and used himself as an example.  You are entitled to your opinion, yet, you might want to understand what someone is saying to you before you spout it.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by Dadano
It's the culture stupid!

It is exactly  the culture Dano.

[moot]

My 2c.  Any great recipe will go to hell if you pee in it, no matter if it's at the very start, or near the end when it's cooling off on the window.

[Angus]

Catholic upbringing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vku_fKAioUw